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| Author | What If You Rented A TGI And Then Sell It... |
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** Sorry if this is in the wrong section. I'm asking a question but it may end up being a discussion **
Now, I just received a mail that kidda disturb me. I'm simply amazed at the blatant way some players utterly disrespect the game's rules and thinks they can get away with murder here.
The player in question is: https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4608165
To make it easier for all, I'll copy some of the his transfer logs here:
11-04-09 23:50: Transferred 14000 Gold to King-Knight :
11-04-09 23:48: Transferred 16000 Gold to padawan123 :
11-04-09 23:45: Transferred 55000 Gold to King-Knight : spliting
11-04-09 23:43: Transferred 100000 Gold to Andre3000 : splitting
11-04-09 23:41: Transferred 8000 Gold to Silent_Rider : payback
11-04-09 23:40: Transferred 7000 Gold to Zaan : here money back
11-04-09 23:39: Transferred 75053 Gold to King-Knight : May be banned bro
11-04-09 23:38: Transferred 10000 Gold 25 Gems 25 Crystals to Andre3000 : Have fun I may be banned
11-04-09 23:37: Acquired: 25 Gems for 9325 gold from Yela as lot #981083
11-04-09 23:37: Acquired: 25 Crystals for 9350 gold from articdom as lot #979667
11-04-09 23:31: Sold item: "Thief invitation" [1/1] for 300000 gold to Anita2008 as lot #981365. Commission: 3000
11-04-09 23:30: Received 1 Gold from Vitovt : You waste time, guy. You will be blocked sooner or later for the yr unattractive affairs
11-04-09 23:23: Item returned: "Cape of spirits" [3/29] to Silent_Rider
11-04-09 23:14: Received 1 Gold from Vitovt : ! ! ! Royal-Knight - SWINDLER ! ! !
11-04-09 23:14: Received 1 Gold from Vitovt : he don't pay back loan from 10-17-09, also for Pantheon and Dethellos read topic below:
11-04-09 23:11: Received 1 Gold from Vitovt : https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1867277
11-04-09 23:10: Received 1 Gold from Vitovt : https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1866564
11-04-09 21:54: Received item(s): 'Thief invitation' [1/1] from beastwar . Transaction price: 15000 Gold | Ok, I know if a player rents out his/her TGI, and the other guy, for 1 reason or another, don't return it (haven't logged in for ages, can't complete TG2, etc), basically there's nothing he can do. If he reports the player, the player would probably get banned and he won't get the TGI back anyway.
But in this case,
1) The TGI is no longer with the lender, but with an active player. So if he is reported and get ban, will the original have the right to get his/her TGI back?
2) The buyer of the TGI is the gf of an active and pretty senior (combat level-wise) member of the forums, so chances are, she should know better than to buy a TGI before checking the seller's logs to see if the TGI actually belongs to the player who's selling it to her. And if she did, it's obvious that it doesn't.
I mean, just look at the logs. One doesn't have to be Einstein to know the seller is of suspicious (to put it mildly) nature, and thus refused the offer to buy, no?
The fact that the deal was almost 100,000 below market price would have aroused any buyer's suspicion, no?
So in this case, has she committed an offense in regards to the game's rules? If so, what is the punishment?
3) The buyer withdrew from her clan's fund (in which she is not the leader, but holds every other posts) to buy the TGI. Of course, she could be buying the TGI for clan use, but so far, she has not transferred the TGI to the clan yet (Not sure if it's even possible to transfer it to a clan. haha..)
So,
- Can a clan buy a TGI?
- If yes, can anyone from the clan buys a TGI using clan funds, or must it be only be done through its leader?
This post in NO way implies that anyone (except obviously the seller of the TGI) has committed an offense, or that anyone other than the seller should be punished (exile him forever to the moon together with a zillion Pumpkinheads, I say!).
I'm posting this coz it's the first time I have come across this and I'm both angered (even though none of the players involved I know personally, or even on my friend's list) and amazed at the utter disregard for the game's rules and sheer audacity at the behavior of some of the players here, and have many questions regarding transactions like this.
Yes, it's a game, but seriously, where's the integrity..
It's a sad world we live in.. | | 1) The TGI is no longer with the lender, but with an active player. So if he is reported and get ban, will the original owner of the TGI have the right to get his/her TGI back? | 1.) Leaders are never reimbursed by the admins.
2.) Buyers have nothing to fear if the item bought is fair market value. If they bought an item below fair market value, then there might be some problems for them. Either the transaction needs to be reversed or they might be fined for the difference.
3.) If approved by the clan leader, then any use of the funds is not an issue. Clan leader holding the TGI is the same as the clan having it.
- Can a clan buy a TGI?
Yes. Clans are considered clan leader property, so yes, clans can buy TGIs. Many clans already do.
- If yes, can anyone from the clan buys a TGI using clan funds, or must it be only be done through its leader?
Only other person who can do this is the treasurer who is an approved clan fund manager. | What I can say is:
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=5
3.17. The Administration does not take responsibility for the unreturned debts and does not guarantee compensation in case of swindling by other players. When a loan is not returned in time, (the time must be written in the transfer logs, no more than a month) the swindler will be imposed a penalty of a sum twice as much. If the term isn't posted in the transfer logs, the penalty will occur 1 month after the loan transaction. The creditor does not get compensation.
I don't think the TGI will come back to the original owner. Even for the case of a person lending a TGI to an active player that cannot (for any reason) return the TGI in 1 month, the player would be punished.
When the admin see the report, I'm sure the issue will be handled.
As for what action the Admin would take with the person who bought the TGI (fair and square, I might add), it's up to them, although I don't think the guy who bought the TGI committed any offence | 1) The TGI is no longer with the lender, but with an active player. So if he is reported and get ban, will the original owner of the TGI have the right to get his/her TGI back?
*1.) I meant lenders are never reimbursed by admins. | Hmm.. a thought just came to my mind.
If there's nothing wrong with the above, then if a player here knows a friend is leaving the game for good, the player can ask his friend to rent a TGI, and then 'sell' it to him at way below market price. His friend will get perm block (which don't really matter since he/she is leaving the game for good anyway), and the player gets a cheap TGI !
If there are presently no rules against such, I really believe something must be written to make it an offense for such an act to be carried out.
I mean, if certain comparatively 'minor' unclear rules were 'revised' (like the one regarding 'giving' exp/fsp away involving 2 top players here) to make it clearer for all players, then something of a more 'serious' rule-breaking like this instance should be addressed, no? | 3.17. The Administration does not take responsibility for the unreturned debts and does not guarantee compensation in case of swindling by other players. When a loan is not returned in time, (the time must be written in the transfer logs, no more than a month) the swindler will be imposed a penalty of a sum twice as much. If the term isn't posted in the transfer logs, the penalty will occur 1 month after the loan transaction. The creditor does not get compensation.
'does not guarantee' doesn't mean a flat 'No' to any form of compensation, no? Doesn't it implies like.. a case-to-case basis? | To your queries:
2. She didn't look in the transfer log of that player. I found about the person who sold it after. I encouraged her to write to Arctic for a piece of advice and she did. Arctic can confirm with the precise time when he received that mail.
She didn't look. There are players on market who want to sell fast, so, they decrease the price pretty much. Yep, the player is a cheater. I didn't know who was the seller or I warn her.
3. She had my approval.
And again, the problem was reported to Arctic and the TGI is held until Anita2008 receives an answer from Arctic. It is a problem which must be solved somehow without losses (we speak about 300k here, not few thousands just to contact the owner).
I hope this answer satisfies you and you will see that your anger should be directed toward Royal-Knight and not the both parts. We are trying to solve the problem somehow. | #9
Thanks for stepping forward to reply. And an honest and perfectly satisfactory reply, I might add. :)
Like I said in my first post, except for the seller, I'm not pointing my fingers at anyone, and definitely not at your gf.
I'm just curious as to what the rules are regarding matters of this nature.
I hope you understand where I'm coming from and have ABSOLUTELY nothing against you or anita (cross my heart or hope to die. haha..) :)
And yes, I'm angry (fuming even), but my anger is ONLY directed towards this Royal-Knight guy, coz I simply can't believe the length some players will go to to cheat in a free online game. | Ok, guys. If there's nothing else, The Q&H isn't the place to further discuss the matter. Either take it to PM between you two (or three if Anita wants in) or leave it to the Arctic (which has been alerted) to handle.
Thanks. | | closed by Lady Takesister (2009-11-05 04:12:18) |
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