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| Author | Faction resistance vs main development - the stats |
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Comparative benefit of faction resistance versus increased attack and def of main from having a higher level
For a long time now I have tried to get a broad faction resistance. This was in part to get more faction resistance, but mostly because I think it more interesting to play different factions than play the same one all the time.
I always thought that this was going to b way better for my character development, 3% faction resistance per level, fantastic I thought, it is fairly reasonable to have 15% defence or more versus other factions, this will help me win more.
However, looking at how damage is calculated I think I have been underestimating the impact of raw stats quite a lot. In fact so much so that I wanted to work out exactly how much this is having, share it incase a) I am wrong and b) there are many people in a similar position who are perhaps developing a build based on an incorrect judgement of benefits.
A 3% per faction level resistance is fairly straight forward to think through so I am not going to worry about that yet, so what about attack vs defence stats
Well to my understanding the damage formula is as follows (simplified to not worry about other talent set ups etc)
Number of units x (min-max damage) / ((1+ (defence of opponent-attack of your stack)x0.05)
To de mystify that equation the divide term basically denotes the difference between your attack, and defence and then the 0.05 term effectively means for every difference in attack and defence you do either 5% more damage or 5% less.
When I realised this I was stunned, my hard earned 3% faction resistance per level is overcome by just 1 value different in attack or defence.
Looking at it a different way – lets say you have gained faction level 5 in all factions aside from your main to give a 15% resistance. This would mean you have spent 280*9 = 2520 FSP to get it
This could have jumped you from FL 9-10 – giving you an extra +2 def and +2 attack. Something that would mean on average 10% more damage and 10% less damage – as well as an initiative bonus.
In my mind then getting FL 5 in all subs is not statistically giving an advantage tilll you are FL 10 in your main. IT must be stated however that it is easier and cheaper to gain sub level FSP at low levels than it is at higher.
So lets say you get to main FL 10, and then 5 in your sub factions – do you get your main to 11 or your subs to 6?
FSP needed for converting main to FSL 11 is 4300 FSP
Additional FSP needed for going from sub 5 to sub 6 is 9*220 = 1980
However the benefit for sub faction 6 all round is 3% less damage received in some battles
The benefit of main FL 11 is +3 defence – giving 15% less damage taken in all battles
+2 attack – giving +10% damage at all levels
+2% initiative
Generally speaking then I think a good rule of sub faction building – in terms of statistical benefit to battles is your sub factions should be no more than 5 levels lower than your main (probably from about the point that your combat level is in double figures).
However, as you may note, I am ignoring my own advice as I prefer the diversity in playing different factions, and also am biased by the price factor, levelling lower is cheaper and easier, and getting from 10-11 will be a long slog of the same faction with no change. For me it is more fun to play with some other things, so before getting a main to FL11 I will probably get others to 6, Wizard to 10 and possible DE to 10 as well. Then I may get one of them to 11, but that will be a long time into the future. | | I dont think an increase/decrease in the damage is a constant 5% when parameter is changed by 1. It varies based on the difference between attack and defense. | To de mystify that equation the divide term basically denotes the difference between your attack, and defence and then the 0.05 term effectively means for every difference in attack and defence you do either 5% more damage or 5% less.
When I realised this I was stunned, my hard earned 3% faction resistance per level is overcome by just 1 value different in attack or defence.
It's more complex than that as far as I understand. It is 5% if attack of the attacking stack and defense of the defending stack is similar. In practice however, the average hero will have like 10 to 20 extra attack compared to defense, and the extra damage from attack will differ if it's a farmer attacking a dragon or a dragon attacking the farmer. Basically each extra attack point above the defense of the defender will have diminishing returns.
I'm not much into math so I won't elaborate on this but I made an excel file a while ago and came to the conclusion that in practice extra attack was more about 3% damage.
Also yes, fl resistance is overvalued. | From that formula, that looks like it is true. Like you have said , definitely worth getting a few fsl in other factions as it is quite easy to fsl, combined with the fact that it does get boring playing only one faction all the time :) But I decided to test it out with a few random numbers (hope it makes sense!)
e.g (50x10)/(1+(45-40)x0.05) = 400dmg
If attack is one more (41)
(50x10)/(1+(45-41)x0.05) = 416.667
So increase in dmg dealt = (416.667-400)/400x100 = 4.17% more dmg
But if say attack is 2 more (42)
(50x10)/(1+(45-42)x0.05) = 434.7826
Increase in dmg dealt = (434.7826-400)/400x100 = 8.695% more dmg
This is a 8.695/2=4.348% increase
These calculations shows that it is not 5% increase per difference in dmg/attack, but it is a diminishing increase in % as the difference between att/def gets larger. It is only gets close to 5% if the differenc between att/def is small. | What I have said re the 5% impact per attack or defence is a simplification, though not always in the same way, and is again a useful thing for people to be aware of, especialy with the relative benefit or not of defensive builds.
The examples above are for a situation where defence is greater than attack. In this situation the larger the defence compared to the attack the lower the % benefit.
However, if you have thre reverse situation with a greater attack than defence the same trend works the other way, where an increasingly large attack gives a larger % benefit
eg take a standard damage of 500 like the example above but where attack is lager for the same numbers)
500/(1+(40-45)x0.05) = 666.6 damage
Increasing attack by 1
500/(1+(40-46)x0.05)= 714.4
So increase in dmg dealt = ((714.4-666.66)/666.66)x100 = 7.14%
Ie this highlights the fact that increasing yoru defence has diminishing returns in damage avoided, but increasing your attack has appreciating returns on damage dealt - ie backing up the general trend in why people invest in attack over defence
On balance however this highlights again to me just how I had mis interpretted attack and defence prior to actually working out the numbers. | Don't forget that the 15% antiskill also works against magic damage, while getting more defense doesn't. But it's true, if you're just aiming to get your character stronger you probably shouldn't get more than 15% antiskill, since higher fl take a lot more fsp to get there.
On the other hand playing with other castles gives you more insight in that faction, so it could improve your strategy against them. Maybe this is even worth more than extra attack? ;-) | What I have said re the 5% impact per attack or defence is a simplification, though not always in the same way, and is again a useful thing for people to be aware of, especialy with the relative benefit or not of defensive builds.
It is never the case, it is my point.
Almost all buils are full attack or full defense.
500/(1+(40-45)x0.05) = 666.6 damage
Increasing attack by 1
500/(1+(40-46)x0.05)= 714.4
So increase in dmg dealt = ((714.4-666.66)/666.66)x100 = 7.14%
Ie this highlights the fact that increasing yoru defence has diminishing returns in damage avoided, but increasing your attack has appreciating returns on damage dealt - ie backing up the general trend in why people invest in attack over defence
You are using the formula for defense being greater than attack.
>>If "Attack" (A) of the attacking stack is bigger than "Defence" (D) of the defending stack, then
Damage = N * R(min, max) * [1 + 0,05 (A-D) ] * [1 - 3*Y/100]
>>If (A) is smaller than (D), then
Damage = N * R(min, max) * [1 - 3*Y/100] / [1 + 0,05*(D-A)]
With your exemple, 500*(1+0.05*(45-40)) = 625
With 46 ATK: 650
That's 3.85% increase. | Thank you slust, I didn;t realise there were two different versions that were used - clearly necessary so that they scale the same way as you approach extremes of differences between attack and defence.
I think for me the conclusion remains the same that I perhaps have almost disadvantaged myself by doing a little too much anti faction stuff, though am quite happy with that fact given the diversity factor.
Looking at your quoted equations but not knowing the source I am presuming that Y is the sub faction level of the person getting damaged. | Looking at your quoted equations but not knowing the source I am presuming that Y is the sub faction level of the person getting damaged.
Yes. It is in the help section.
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=34 |
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