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| Author | Why dont they "Rework" some Units, Talents and Spells? |
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This is beyond "They should already have made Alt DE, Alt Dwarf, Alt Tribal, or even second Alts" Btw.
I honestly think they should take a look at the current Talent Wheels, Spells and Units and think of some ideas to tweak them a little bit.
Right now there are (More or less) only a couple of "Viable" Builds for each Class when battling, one of them being the most "MainStream"/Viable/"Efficient", and the other more "Situational".
Like... You already know a DE's gonna get Tactics and Rally for GBs (Generally, like 95% of the time) before even checking his Profile when you see him join the GB.
I have the feeling making a specific Build should be part of the "Strategy", and not just "How you move your units and make plans during the battle", but the options right now are Non-Existant.
Reworking some things could lead to "Decision Making when making a Build" being a fact.
Pretty much the same goes for Spells. A Chaos Caster generally only uses a couple of Spells during a battle, and a Light/Darkness Caster or Tribal boy just chooses to Spam them all. Again, no decision making.
This is not 100% the same for Units, but I wanna point out that some of them are useless in ALL situations (Or 95% of them), like Zombies and their upgrades plus Sentries and their upgrades.
And yes, I know they are the very same Units from HoMM V (Please Im not hinting Plagiarism this is not what I wanna talk about), but they could tweak Zombies (For example) to give them a situational use.
Like, we pretty much have the same Spells and Talents we had in 2008 IIRC, and I feel like "Decision Making" should be a part of the "Strategy" as I mentioned earlier.
Dont get me wrong, developpers have made a huge effort in this game, but it took them a while to remove Recruitment after changing Faction, and the potential this game has and see it not getting the 100% of it saddens me sometimes.
What do you think? Just random thoughts I had while checking different Builds I could make. | I agree with some of your points, such as a larger variety of unique and viable builds would be really cool.
Though I disagree with
A Chaos Caster generally only uses a couple of Spells during a battle, and a Light/Darkness Caster or Tribal boy just chooses to Spam them all. Again, no decision making.
Though true at lower levels due to the limited number of spells, at higher levels, there are many spells which are good in different situations. Such as having to adjust chaos spells used depending on some units having % elemental resistances, prioritising some units over others, whether single target or very large AoE spells are needed etc.
Also, zombie and sentries upgraded units are quite good at lower levels (5-7) e.g infected strike permanently lowering att/def by 4 which is quite a lot. Also, most people don't focus them because of their low damage. They also have situational uses e.g lowering att/def of monsters in mercenary quests can help a lot too. So I think they have their uses, but definitely situational :). | e.g lowering att/def of monsters in mercenary quests However, It was removed and now monster can no longer reduce attack and defense (even with using spells)
Thus, it effectly also remove aim shot of xbow, zombie infected strike,etc | I think there's sufficient variables of build playable already.. I mean yeah sure, there is definitely room for improvement, but as it presently stands, I'm quite satisfied with the amount of varieties are available to us.
Of course I'm not going to list all the variable and possible different build but allow me to just list a few factions and their viable build. Take DD (seeing it's my all time favourite), it's literally a no brainier on its versatility, leadership build works like a charm in TG/hunt situations, full attack-erudition build is just as effective as a hybrid build in GB. Also it's possible to go for a mixture of different "talent class", i.e. take 2 leadership talents and 2 mass dark spells, etc.
With regards to DE/tribal, sure 95% of the time players of that faction would use the same build over and over again mainly because it's proven. It's human nature to prefer to stick with the known and to dislike unproven/untested strategies. But anyhow, I don't think it's of admin's concern to give more "viable strategies", I feel it's dependent on the player itself. Most of DE players go with max shrews in 1 stack and tactics, why? Because its a strategically smart and wise move.
70+ shrews in 1 stack can literally move like a butterfly and strike like a bee, so why not use that to their advantage? It's not that they blindly just follow the mass DE population in selecting tactics talent, but because such a talent/strategy perfectly suits shrews. Same for their next best creature i.e. lizards assailants, tactics talent is tailor made for them. I don't know much about GB but from the few DE CG encounters I've had, most of them were perfectly capable of adapting depending on their opponent's faction..
A Chaos Caster generally only uses a couple of Spells during a battle, and a Light/Darkness Caster or Tribal boy just chooses to Spam them all. Again, no decision making.
Hence why I partially agree with admin favouring a might or if not a hybrid mixture. Kinda boring to see the same hero over and over again with only 2 strategy in every battle i.e. zapping or burning their opponent's strongest and later resorting to running/defending. Also as paladinleader pointed out, a holy/dark caster in mid to high CL players don't just spam and randomly cast spells, but to the contrary, it's a spell that perfectly counters the situation at hand.
One of the best decision that could come from admin was the introduction of campaign battles, I've done my fair share of them and playing as a DD, it was nearly impossible to even progress 4-5 battles consecutively with using the same ol traditional builds/talents. Thus all in all, it's dependent on the player to find that right build for that particular situation, in GB yes perhaps X build works, but in hunts, Y build would be preferred and Z build for events, etc.. | | @Gaara, oops forgot about that update hehe, thanks for the reminder. | for Ipsen:
i like your ideas but disagree them.
TBH, we have a wide range of spells, recruitment's and talent wheel and arts.
we(.com) are not exploring or trying new thing *whatever word you can put.*
because when i see russian players, they come with strange ideas and setup. sometimes work and sometimes wont but looks very interesting. specially PvP doers, high level players, special Event Toppers.
we always play in safer side. same old talents, recruitment's and spells if we play as caster.
P.S: i dont mind getting new things but we should explore more. | | When it comes to casting, when they noticed that mage guild level 5 would completely turn over the gameplay and cream the might players, they decided to leave the game as it is which also resulted in a deadend. You can only stretch the longevity of a game by releasing the same events over and over untill it bleeds out. Let me put it this way: when there is no actual change in a game then that game starts to become more of a task than you actually getting any joy from it. | This is basically an I&S, and admins will probably never even look at it so there's no use in discussing this. More importantly in I&S it is clearly written not to suggest changes to faction's strengths/weaknesses or talents and stuff.
Anyway, interesting idea but it doesn't make a difference since admins won't do it, and even if they do it would be by coincidence, they won't actually come and read your post and think "Ah brilliant idea, let's do it!(In a Russian accent)*
*Unless they have drunk too much vodka :P | when they noticed that mage guild level 5 would completely turn over the gameplay and cream the might players, they decided to leave the game as it is which also resulted in a deadend.
How do you know this? You ever hear something said by "them" ? | I'd like to see some changes especially to the talent wheels... some talents seem to be completely useless, e.g. sorcery for necro (unless someone will use berserker build one day :D)
Also what's the point of Undead Liegeman talent? 5% necromancy increase for skeletons that are not collected anymore isn't that attractive ;) | In every RTS / MMORPG game, as soon as a dominant strategy is found it is massively mirrored by other players.
Yes we could change some things, but we would end up with the same global result and level of unsatisfaction a couple weeks later.
The overall balance of factions (including different combat types and facility of progression) is the only sound objective. | I agree they should rework the talent wheels, maybe even the whole talent wheel system. Sure there are many possibilities even now, but most of them exist only theoretically because there are always those 1-2 builds per faction/class which sgnificantly stronger than the others.
More importantly in I&S it is clearly written not to suggest changes to faction's strengths/weaknesses or talents and stuff.
He didn't say "make faction x stronger" but "bring more diversity into the game".
when they noticed that mage guild level 5 would completely turn over the gameplay and cream the might players, they decided to leave the game as it is which also resulted in a deadend.
How do you know this? You ever hear something said by "them" ?
Introduction of magic guild level 5 was planned in 2013. This was postponed due to balancing issues. | | In the recent interview with Maxim one of the questions asked was what the Admins' immediate focus was on... first mention was campaigns, but beyond that Maxim said they would focus on alt de and MG 5. So they definitely haven't abandoned plans to introduce mg5 it is as magier says, an issue of balance. | but beyond that Maxim said they would focus on alt de
Yayyy! | . So they definitely haven't abandoned plans to introduce mg5
Yeah it does seem like a bit of a difficult process, if mg 5 is indeed that strong then the only solution for them is to make all other might factions even stronger, which is a complicated process as some factions can be both might and magic, such as de or wiz. | In the recent interview with Maxim one of the questions asked was what the Admins' immediate focus was on... first mention was campaigns, but beyond that Maxim said they would focus on alt de and MG 5. So they definitely haven't abandoned plans to introduce mg5 it is as magier says, an issue of balance.
Wow this is an interesting surprise. Seems like some of us have been completely out of the information loop (including myself). Corey, i would appreciate if you could share your source with us especially where to read the interviews and such. | Here is a link to a translated version (hopefully)
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdaily.heroeswm.ru%2Fn%2FStenogramm a_s_Max_adm_18-04-16
and original
http://daily.heroeswm.ru/n/Stenogramma_s_Max_adm_18-04-16
It was posted in second campaign thread by Liuker originally | for virtual_vitrea: http://daily.heroeswm.ru/n/Stenogramma_s_Max_adm_18-04-16
It's only available in Russian at the moment. I tried to get it translated when it came out so that we could discuss it, but I am trying to switch isp so I am mobile which makes it a hassle. In addition to the interview a few questions were asked to Maxim by some English speaking players so we can collate those answers and discuss them as well. If I had consistent internet access I would have done it ;)
The interview has some relevant points to the discussion in this thread, but if we want to discuss it further it is probably best to open a new thread as there is much more to discuss. | @virtual_vitrea, How? Because they had plans for it years ago, last of it was heard here: http://daily.heroeswm.ru/newscom.php?i=MG_5
which was 2 years ago, since then nothing. After years have gone by they shouldn't even keep the pretense of it up.
With spells that do twice the damage of lightning bolt etc, it's crystal clear why it won't be released, one could easily remove any full stack one by one causing nothing but tears, grieve and anguish to the might players. like I said: mage guild level 5 will completely turn over the gameplay and cream the might players. It would be like adding flying when everyone in this game only knows how to drive and nothing else. It's too big of a change so they are afraid that most players will not be able to adapt and will leave. By not releasing it the game currently sits in a deadlock. | . So they definitely haven't abandoned plans to introduce mg5
Maxim has been talking about working on MG5 since 2013... but now it's still on the waiting list. Hope we can see it before 2020... |
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