| Author | talent of retribution |
|---|
the talent of retribution gives 5% extra dmg on over all morale paramater or only from morale increased by art
for eg :-
i use medal of bravery,basic leadership talent and 1 by default morale
so i get 15% extra dmg?
is this correct?
or i get only 5% - for medal of bravery |
| 15% extra physical damage. |
| You get it from over all morale paramater. So 15% in this case are correct. |
Is there any proof?
I am pretty sure morale parameters from leadership talents don't count. For example, I am certain luck talents don't affect that demon talent that depends on luck, so why should this one be different? In fact, I doubt even the 1 morale we get naturally counts. Even if it does, talents probably don't count. |
I believe it is dependant on how much morale each individual stack has regardless where it comes from. So could be dofferent for each one and may raise or lower during the combat.
Am sure orhers will post 'proof' here either way though. |
I am pretty sure
I am certain
In fact, I doubt
probably
How about you give us a proof for your "doubts" and "certains"? ;) |
| I can guarantee one thing. The damage bonus from retribution works according to each unit's morale (not on the hero's morale). I use retribution and morale build for ambushes, and I have noticed the damage difference when you attack from any tile adjacent from ghouls or after one of your units has affliction (mirage dragons). Its not much of a proof, but I have no reason to lie. |
for virtual_vitrea:
You are correct. The description also states the same "Troops deal 5% extra physical damage per current morale parameter."
Any talent which is related to the Lord's attribute, explicitly states "Lord" in its description.
So best answer:
I believe it is dependant on how much morale each individual stack has regardless where it comes from. So could be dofferent for each one and may raise or lower during the combat.
P.S. Stacks with "Bravery" skill will always receive the benefit of 15% bonus damage from Retribution. Cheers! |
Can the modifier be negative? For example, after raising the dead or something?
Also, does it still have any benefit after you surpass the effective limit of morale?
(I think I read somewhere that Luck and Morale are useless after 5? I may be wrong.) |
As far as I know it still does. This is the only reason why you should ever have more than 5 morale.
Btw @randomr1: Of course the extensive gating talent is also affected by luck from talents, otherwise it would be a very useless talent :D |
Morale factors from all sources, talents included, increase the damage output with the retribution talent.
for Eternal Dusk:
Can the modifier be negative? For example, after raising the dead or something?
Also, does it still have any benefit after you surpass the effective limit of morale?
(I think I read somewhere that Luck and Morale are useless after 5? I may be wrong.)
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1923781
Q.6.22: If my character's luck/morale is more than 5, how will that affect luck/morale triggering and will there be any effect for Extensive gating/Empathy talents?
A: Morale more than 5 is redundant, it will neither trigger more often nor increase damage via Empathy.
Luck above 5 will not trigger more often, but will have effect in Extensive gating.
That answer is partly true, as it makes no mention of the retribution talent under the morale answer. However, it is correct that morale over 5 still has an effect on retribution.
As for negative morale, I have been unable to find a specific example in regards to the talent. |
How about you give us a proof for your "doubts" and "certains"? ;)
Well, initially even I thought that it includes talents, however, when I asked a demon friend of mine to use the talent that gives a higher % of gated troops per luck parameter.
He used the talent, and surprisingly the 2 luck from his Advanced Fortune talent did not count. I am too lazy to go and find a game he played months ago, but I can assure you that talent luck does NOT work in this case, and that is what I meant by certain. |
for randomr1:
Well you ought to find the game, because without it - You do not have the proof to support your claim. In every other instance the luck talents do support the extensive gating talent which would suggest that you are incorrect. |
| It does work, it's just that the effect is not additive, but cumulative. So the resulting extra troops are lower than you might think. |
for Corey:
Hmm, alright, gonna try to find it.
the effect is not additive, but cumulative.
What does that mean? |
this is a fight without extensive gating talent:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=1&warid=723697740
while this is a fight with extensive gating talent:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=723703579
without extensive gating i gate 13 imps
while with extensive gating i gate 16 imps
i was not wearing any luck equipment in that match
13*120/100=15.6 imps
if the 2 luck from talent does not count it will be
13*110/100=14.3 imps
the fact that i gate 16 imps prove that 2 luck from talent does affect extensive gating
i lose a fight because of this :( |
now for the talent of retribution part
this is the damage formula if Att>Def:
Damage = N * R(min, max) * [1 + 0,05 (A-D) ] * [1 - 3*Y/100]
N - number of creatures in the attacking stack;
R(min, max) - random rational number out of the "Damage" parameter delta down to two decimal digits;
Y - The level that the character in command of the defending stack has reached in faction skill of the attacking character's faction.
this is a fight without talent of retribution:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=722401103
332.8 = 128*2*[1+0.05(22-16)]*[1 - 3*0/100]
399 = 332.8*120/100(20% more damage from advance offense)
this is a fight with talent of retribution:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=723727070
351 = 117*2*[1+0.05(22-12)]*[1 - 3*0/100]
now to add damage modifier from advance offense:
421.2 = 351*120/100
the effect is not additive, but cumulative.
now to add damage mod from talent of retribution
484.4 = 421.2*115/100
if you calculate it by additive
351*135/100
you'll get 473 which is not the correct answer.
but that fight also prove that morale from all source affect the damage output .. my hero perform the ritual spell boosting goblin morale by 2 and increasing its damage output from 484 to 579
with this it can be concluded that all randomr1 claim is wrong :)
Can the modifier be negative
the ring of luck is expensive~ i don't wanna~~ |
| retribution and and extensive gating works with extra morale and luck, ignore other wrong posts |
Ok, so I found the battle finally, but it seems I misunderstood the talent's meaning. The talent says the amount of gated troops is increased by 10%+5%(lord's luck parameter), so, with 3 luck I expected it to increase by 25%. Therefore, what Lord Fosgeen said on post 14 is probably right.
Why was I confused about this? Here's why:
The fsl of the person playing with extensive gating was 8, so his gating % was 52. Since I expected the extra % to add, I expected it to be 77%, however, the gating % was only about two third in the combat. Therefore, I thought if his adv. fortune did not count, it would be 67%, which would make perfect sense. However, if you take them cumulatively, you will get 52%*1.25=65%, which is also very close to 67%.
Of course the troop numbers were not enough to make an exact estimate of the gate percent, and since the first explanation made enough sense to me I didn't look for another reason.
with this it can be concluded that all randomr1 claim is wrong :)
Great, you have achieved something in your life =.= |
| I have a question btw, would Cold Blade and Retribution have the same effect if you have only 2 morale? |
