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| Author | How does "Speed" and "Range" work in Til |
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When I first joined the game and up to some levels earlier I always had problems understanding the reach distance of a creature whom's way was blocked in many situations (eg if a minotaur is blocked by a large creature, can it move 4 tiles on the other side ?). In addition to this, the same problem seemed to appear in shooters' range, but in a far more stable situation (eg, if a creature is away by 5 tiles straight line and 3 tiles from the side, will it be in range ?).
Unclear situations like these were always troublesome and in case you are a newbie you always depend on the "shadow signature" when you mouse over a creature for movement and the "crossbow signature" when you mouse over to an enemy with a shooter. Well, OK, that clears the situation, but what happens if you want to know the reach capabilities of your troop AFTER you change position, how can you be so sure that it will reach the enemy precisely ? I always used previous experience to determine such situations, as most of us do (I guess), but that's very boring and difficult to calculate precisely isn't it ? How is one tile "speed" or "range" in straight line, refered on a side line ? What is the reach for diagonial distance ? I'm sure that these are quite often questions when you are unfamiliar with "speed" and "range" and I'll try to explain them now.
OK, enough with the introduction lets get to the main point. First of all, through experience I came to conclude that "Speed" and "Range" is given in one integer which determines a reach, distance. When talking about distance, we refer to a straight line and since we are talking about Tiles (those square units were our troops stand on) Speed and Range refer to the amount of tiles away from the center (and the center is always the creature we care for). I think that in straight line distance it's pretty clear and no further explanation is needed, so lets discuss what happens in blocked paths, complicated destinations etc.
We assume that the creature in question is not a flyer (flyers have no problems moving as long as their landing destination is clear from any obstacle or unit). A walking creature chooses the shortest path to move. It can move left, right, up, down AND diagonial (in any direction). Once a destination is ordered by the user, the creature will find the shortest path and take it on to that destination, so according to the way of moving mentioned when we're talking about non straight path the creature will take a diagonial direction as soon as it needs to turn. So, how do we know how far it can reach when moving diagonial ? The answer is simple to all of you who have been at least 9 years in total at school (or maybe more according to your country's education system) and that answer is the Pythagorean Theorem. For those who've never heard of it I will try to give a simple formula, but I guess you'll need time to get used to this way of thinking.
If D = final distance, X = horizontal distance, Y = vertical distance
then you may say that : D*D = X*X + Y*Y
and in a more advanced form : D = (X^2 + Y^2)^(1/2)
where ^ means -at the power of-
The above formula will give a floating point number in most of the cases so to determine the original distance assume that you got a limit of a given "Speed" (lets say 6), so if the formula give a result of 6.34567 then your creature can't reach the destination which is X tiles in horizontal and Y tiles in vertical distance, but it can reach any X,Y combination that is lower or same as 6.
So, lets conclude our results in the most common situations to get yourself familiar with the distance matter with some examples :
O = terrain obstacle or other covered tile.
G = creature in question (who's reach we want to see).
E = Empty tiles.
E = Empty tiles inrange.
In all the following examples we will assume the creature has a speed of 5 so th | In all the following examples we will assume that the creature has a speed of 5 so that the forms will be small enough.
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Now lets see one example of shooter (I think most of you have seen many similar to this, but lets include it so we have a complete guide :) (range=6) Consider our shooter to be a crossbowmam since they have multiple range abilities (6 tiles range, 3 tiles aimedshot ability).
O = aimedshot range
E = Riles in normal range
E= Tiles out of range
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Now you'll be wondering why a 6-speed creature can't move 5 tiles horizontal and 3 tiles vertical (it can go only two vertical if it goes 5 horizontal). Well, the anwer is because the creatures can move diagonial, but not TRUE diagonial. Meaning to go to tile x=5 y=1 away, it goes up until x=5 and then does one diagonial, thats a longer distance than going straight forward to the destination. To help you understand that, consider that you have to go to a location but you can only do 45 degrees angle turn and must go on a straight line up to a specific distance. I'm afraid I can't simplify the problem more than that, if you still don't get it then just say that a diagonial tile is 1.4 tile distance :) On the other hand, shooters don't work that way. A shot drives its way INSTANTLY to the target, not having "movement" limits and reaches the target in a TRUE diagonial path, so a shooter with range 6 when hitting a target 5 horizontal tiles and 3 vertical has to deal with a distance of D^2 = 5^2 + 3^2 =34. 6^2 = max distance he can shoot and 6^2=36>34, so he can shoot in that tile.
Finally, a more troublesome situation is when you want to know the reach of a large creature, isn't it ? Well, in that case, consider that when a large creature moves it can reach ALL the tiles that every one of the four tiles it steps on can reach the appropriate location. Well, that's a kinda stupid way to determine which tiles it can reach, but it's simple enough so that you can understand it :) For large creature shooters just consider you have the shooter at all four tiles it steps on, if even one of those tiles is in close range to the target then the target is in range to shoot normally.
Hope this clears the things up :)
Good Luck !
P.S : Sorry for the cut - double posted parts :) | | Interesting...Never thought it from that perspective:) I can predict where each creature will be able to move just from habit and practise all this time. I've been wonderring if there is some kind of formula for that. Although I'm not sure if it will be helpfull while you're in battle, good job you did there. | Thanks ! :)
Yeah it helps a lot in battles, (especially hunts), I found some new complicated ways to block my crossbows safely after understanding how this works. And the most important, you can see where a creature can go in complicated cases even if it's not your turn (meaning you can't see the shadow of reach).
Ooops, a correction :
Well, the anwer is because the creatures can move diagonial, but not TRUE diagonial. Meaning to go to tile x=5 y=1 away, it goes up until x=4 and then does one diagonial | Interesting I always calculate how far a creatur can move by counting the tiles I travel under the consideration, that a move on a diagonal direction always costs alternating 2 or 1 starting with 2.
Thus a vampire (speed 6)can move 4 times in a diagonal direction. If you want to walk around multiple obstacles just count your steps each horizontal or vertical costs 1 and then you have to apply the rule above for the diagonal steps. | | I have wondered about this before, but like lik, it has only become habit to know how it works. Over time I can just tell where creatures can move when blocked in certain ways. Once in a while I'll misjudge creatures with speed 8 or 9, since blocking them is often impractical anyway. | Wow, great job Hallion!
Sticky please, mods! | can you check again for post number 3 ? i think for shooter, range is here:
- - - - - - R - - - - - -
- - - - R R R R R - - - -
- - R R R R A R R R R - -
- - R R R R R R R R R - -
- R R R A A A A A R R R -
- R R R A A A A A R R R -
R R R A A A U A A A R R R
- R R R A A A A A R R R -
- R R R A A A A A R R R -
- - R R R R A R R R R - -
- - R R R R R R R R R - -
- - - - R R R R R - - - -
- - - - - - R - - - - - -
U = unit
A = xbow aimed shoot's range
R = shooter's range
- = our of range | no, see arctics picture here
http://89.108.116.112/photos/0000002/083.jpg | | Except that the 8 surrounding tiles are melee. Seems like all forget that. | Here's a very simple way for walking:
Straight walk = 1, Diagonal = 1.5 (in reality, 1.4142..., but 1.5 works fine)
Now you can move with any combination of straight and diagonal as long as total does not exceed speed.
For range, you have to use Pythagorean theorem as Hallion has shown.This is because the creatures can move diagonial, but not TRUE diagonial.
On the other hand, shooters CAN shoot in a "true" diagonal. | for cakur:
no you are wrong | | cakur you r area is too small | Yes exactly as qulows mentioned. That's a nice simple and correct way to think, it works in all situations as I think of it now, since 1.5 works fine for only one diagonal move (since creatures can move only one diagonal). Yes, cakur be careful, shooters are not like creatures, they can shoot in TRUE diagonal range so they can hit a vertical 5 and horizontal 3 target.
for stoter:
Thanks ! If only I could correct the title it could be a good sticky ... I wonder why the title didn't fit ... it wasn't that long ... | I wonder why the title didn't fit ... it wasn't that long ...
maybe because of those quotation marks? only reason I can think of... (on some mobile phones some non-letter symbols use more data than normal letters when sending an sms, don't ask me why though...)
and perhaps a mod can correct the title..?
but, ahum, back to the topic..... | I hate to burst your bubble, but it's actually very simple. I thought everyone knows this.
You are correct that for shooting range, the exact Pythagorean formula is used.
However, for movement, each diagonal move is counted as exactly 1.5 steps (a straight move is 1 step, of course). If the number of steps it takes to get to a square is no higher than your speed, then you can move there.
That's all there is to it. | Interesting I always calculate how far a creatur can move by counting the tiles I travel under the consideration, that a move on a diagonal direction always costs alternating 2 or 1 starting with 2.
Thus a vampire (speed 6)can move 4 times in a diagonal direction. If you want to walk around multiple obstacles just count your steps each horizontal or vertical costs 1 and then you have to apply the rule above for the diagonal steps. | Maybe I'm hallucinating, but in my last fight the Behemoth's range was not indicated correctly. In 2 turns after each other it seemed to be that my cerberi escape (according to the colored region), but they are not... if it happens once, I believe, it is because of speed increase, but twice after each other... did anyone experienced similar things with big creatures?
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=499556849<=-1 | for akz:
Everything is fine IMO |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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