| Author | Money in GC mines |
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| Has anyone else noticed that the GC mines have much lower gold then they used to? Not the lab and maybe not the farm but the ore pit and sawmill are much lower in gold then ive ever noticed. is that just me? I feel like they were emptied for some reason. Also the server was down for an hour ish today at noon my time idk what that was server time maybe it has something to do with that? other ideas? |
| Did you notice that they have higher wood or ore then they used to? |
Lets talk economics. If you are a producer (working in the mines for example) and there is no-one BUYING YOUR PRODUCT (check GC ore mine supply for example) the supply will increase and the treasury of the mine will decrease through your wages. To the point of bankruptcy.
Solution : Buy the products... |
| This is what I hate about this world economy. They should make the number of job positions dynamic, so the inventory amount stays constant. If inventory starts to pile up, then reduce the number of workers, and if inventory is going down, hire more workers. This would better reflect real-world economy. It is a trivial programming feat, yet the admins never bothered. If they did this right, assuming that no factory sells at a loss, the factories would be self-sufficient and never need periodic tinkering by the admins. |
As a side note, developed economies are so much driven by consumption that the governments will actually give you money for nothing (which they just printed for free anyway, it's not like it's their own salary) so you can go and buy stuff and keep the whole thing going. Known as a helicopter drop. There are many covert ways they can do this without being so blatant as to fly choppers over cities dropping cash but it has the same effect.
Consumption is the most important thing, supply only facilitates consumption.
Remove consumption and... remember the 1930's? |
| You're right Geryon and I am puzzled why they didn't implement these market forces into their economic model. Still if people consumed and didn't just hoard gold the point would be moot. |
| Geryon, you should post your comment in suggestions and ideas. |
| Craig you're right... but it has been suggested in the past to no avail. Don't let me discourage you from doing it again tho... |
for DarwenAward:
That's only because economies are led to consumption by the big corporations to fleece the masses. And what does any good business do once their sales have maxed their supply? They expand and increase their production. This is only a problem if their demand suddenly drops off. But even demand never drops or never drops suddenly, then they will continue to profit immensely.
What governments should do isn't to create artificial demand, but to stimulate research and development and to build/maintain infrastructure.
An economy based on consumption is bad in many ways for society, government, and the economy. It only benefits short-sighted big corporations. |
for Obergon:
From time to time admins adjust the gold and stock levels of various facilities even when there are no events. |
Pantheon that is a simplistic approach, but at least you tried. If you think any successful economy is not centred on consumption or that consumption is bad(!) wow I have no words for you.
Our standard of living is in many ways based on how we consume and how much. We base our lives and standard of living on how we have a nice house, nice food, consume education, luxuries, the list goes on. Even defence forces are a consumer.
AND not only those companies shareholders will benefit. Those companies usually employ many local people who directly benefit from the consumption from the CEO, right down to the night-time cleaning staff.
Demand is a curious beast. Technology may render a stockpile of product obsolete overnight, rendering it's demand potentially cut to zero overnight. Fashion, taste and other factors will effect demand.
Also pantheon, did you realise that a vast many companies are not the big corporations you describe? Small and medium enterprise outnumber big corporations and are critical to economies, but you focus purely on the large corporations who "fleece" the masses (in your words)... I have no words for you. |
for DarwenAward:
I'm not saying consumption is bad. I'm saying economies based on consumption is bad. Of course in any economy consumption is a basic vital part. Without consumption there is no need to even have an economy in the first place. But economies should never be so reliant on consumption to the point where slight drops lead to catastrophic consequences.
Companies should never be too big to fail. I know that companies have shareholders, but that's beside the point. I know that there are small and medium sized companies, but that's also beside the point. I know that companies hire local and unskilled workers... but so what? When supply (cars, houses, appliances, food) reach the point where the population simply do not need more, then production must be cut.
And yes, I realize that companies do that all the time. When oversupply recessions happen they cut production and lay off workers, which in turn reduces demand and then leads to a bigger oversupply.... My point is that all economies based on consumption would eventually crash. It happened during the 1930s and in happened in 2006. Government handouts, helicopter drop, and inflation are nothing more than present-day temporary fixes that borrow on the prosperity of the future.
Inflation is just a tool used by the government to support business by stealing the future of the masses. An ideal economy would not need inflation. |
Without consumption there is no need to even have an economy in the first place
And with this statement we can all see that an economy is NON-EXISTENT without CONSUMPTION/DEMAND and if not on your shores then for export.
Which is precisely why our economy here (LWM) is how it is. Without demand for the goods the factories here go bankrupt, we don't cut supply gradually we wait till the facility is broke then production halts. So there ARE market forces at work after all.
And to wind up... Keep adding to your pile of 2 million gold while you tout these idealisms and many of the players have no job :) This is just like in real life but for people like you, you don't care right? |
for DarwenAward:
And with this statement we can all see that an economy is NON-EXISTENT without CONSUMPTION/DEMAND and if not on your shores then for export.
Did you even read my posts? I've said over and over again that while consumption is vital, it should never reach the point where the economy is completely reliant on it.
As for my pile of 2 million gold, that's nothing.
-I spent well past 3 million gold last year.
-Individuals with gold is better than an economy wasting supply with artificial demand
-And just like in real life I do care and preach that individuals should save their money instead of continuing to spend it prop up a consumption driven economy.
It is foolhardy to expect consumption to keep rising forever to support the economy.
As for LWM factories, they never go bankrupt because they have no overhead and never lose money on their transactions. If it is has overproduced, then it just stops and goes on when goods are sold. In real life there are overhead and they can't stop and go whenever they want without consequences. |
I read your posts where you contradicted yourself by saying that consumption was bad, then necessary, then you admitted that it WAS the economy.
If you want to be the rich guy on the hill surrounded by angry unemployed people then:
-Individuals with gold is better than an economy wasting supply with artificial demand Fits for you, nice one.
With the world population forever increasing then why is it foolish to expect consumption to increase also? And for that matter many people are not fortunate as us in the world, do you think they do not wish to increase their standard of living? This will surely lead to increased demand. Right?
Do you respect the Japanese economy? You obviously don't even though if you have a car it is most likely a Japanese one. :P The Japanese economy is centred on a mantra like "Buy Japanese and we all benefit". It is indeed patriotic for a Japanese person to drive consumption by buying their products, either cars, tvs etc whatever. Even when they don't need them. A huge sack of gold is nice, but a working economy is better.
Also: the 30s depression I alluded to and you picked up on could have been well avoided by a huge helicopter drop, among other things at the time of the stock market crash. This would have been an economy saver. What actually saved the US economy? WW2! But that was after a lot or heartbreak and wars are not in my mind preferable as a means to pick up struggling economies (yet they work most times) but I digress... |
... Back to the topic...
As for LWM factories, they go bankrupt ALL THE TIME, I lost count. The Admins inject more cash and the cycle repeats. Is it so bad to expect that people contribute to the economy by working AND buying?
The introduced AP rule reflects this antisocial type of play was rife. They had to force demand just as many sensible economies do, or at least encourage it. |
There's so much I can address and take apart... but I'll get to the point and be relevant to just 1 point.
the 30s depression I alluded to and you picked up on could have been well avoided by a huge helicopter drop
This happened not because demand was lacking. This happened because supply outpaced natural demand. You believe the economy would always be good if only there was more demand. Whether it's a helicopter drop, a war, the gov burning excess crops, giving away products so everyone can have a new car/tv/etc every year... The whole point being is that this is NOT sustainable.
Admins can make min ap to be 20 and force everyone to buy more arts and keep the facilities flush with gold. And when that isn't enough, increase min ap to 30. Everyone wants to use more arts and everyone wants the economy moving. But you will reach a point where it just doesn't make sense to spend X gold or that individuals will start becoming bankrupt.
And I will say again for the 10th time: Consumption is needed, but it should not run the economy. It is only a part of the economy and not the economy itself. Demand is needed but it should not be forced. Forced demand causes long term problems. |
Forced demand causes long term problems.
I know problems such as... employment. Such as a nice standard of living.
Oops I forgot you were more interested in your 2 million+++ gold and less in a happy working populace, silly me. |
| Also the long term should be thought about but if you are homeless, if you are unemployed and can't feed your wife and daughters... you worry about tomorrow. The future is a series of tomorrows which you will find out is a quite important for what use is the future if you die of starvation? If your daughter is killed by a riot of unemployed as she went to the bank to pick up the gold you left her? Pragmatism is where idealists must look go when they grow up. |
