| Author | Whats wrong with the magic talents? |
|---|
Hi,
I changed to magic DE to try out new spells (nothing like having some fun!), and i cant get any new ones. I first went with Expert Chaos Magic, but no new spells appeared (and it says in that talent description that hero can learn level 5 spells). Then i tried Wisdom (wich reads: hero can learn level 3 spells without the required magic school talents), but again no new spells were available (wasnt i supposed to have fireball and confusion?).
What am i doing wrong? Or why are the talents descriptions wrong? |
| First you have to build the magic guild level 3 in your castle. |
you're wrong :)
Even if you have the talents, you need to have built the magic guilds. Even if you have the magic guilds but no talents, spells won't come out..so you need to have both talents and magic guilds |
| you need to be combat level 10 and build magic guild 3 in order to cast fireball, ice ring, weakness and confusion |
Well thats just stupid. Why would a talent read "hero can learn something" that they actually cant? I mean, if the only way to get new spells is by building guilds, then why are talents saying heroes can learn spells when they cant? Its even more stupid if you consider a hero gets a spell without requiring any talent just by building the guild.
Talent description should just read "enhances spell effect for the respective school". The rest is just inaccurate and therefore misleading :( |
talent mastery allow you to access the new spells in magic guild and improve the effective
magic guild provide spells list you can use.
spell power determine the damage output or duration of spells
knowledge provide mana for you to cast spells
in general, you need at least no/basic/advance/expert talent mastery and magic guild level 1,2/3/4/5 to access and cast level 1,2/3/4/5 spells.
of course, some factions can invest on the wisdom talent fall under sorcery talent which allow you to cast level 3 spells without basic talent mastery; but you still need magic guild lv3 for that |
| Magic guild is the institution where your lord learn and acquire spells, while talents are the requirements for lord to learn higher level spells. There is nothing wrong with the talent descriptions. |
talent mastery allow you to access the new spells in magic guild and improve the effective
That is NOT what the talents read. They say talent mastery allow you to learn the new spells and improve efficiency. The "in magic guild" part is really not there, and that omission alter the sense of the description. Having the respective magic guild is a necessary condition for the talent to work, but the way they are described makes no reference to that. Wich means the description pretends the talent works by itself. "Hero can learn level 3 spells". Its wrong, he cant. At least, not until he meets another condition - but where does it say that?
Anyway, thank you for the simple way you explained things, i get it now. Description still wrong, though. |
"Hero can learn level 3 spells"
Keyword: "can". |
Keyword: "can".
Truth: "cant".
But it doesnt say the truth at all. It just says that i can (when i cant!). Who wrote the descriptions, Barack Obama? "Yes, we can!"... eventually. |
Wisdon:
"Hero can learn level 3 spells without the required magic school talents."
Basic [insert] magic:
"Hero can learn level 3 [insert] magic school spells. All [insert] spells efficiency is increase."
Where the spells are "taught"? The magic guild of 2/3 magic schools.
Now take Steadiness talent as example,
"Hero gains "Mass Stoneskin" spell on Advance Holy magic level."
Here its straight forward, hero gains the spell. |
Is it so difficult to admit the sentence "Hero can learn level 3 spells" is misleading?
"Hero gains "Mass Stoneskin" spell on Advance Holy magic level."
I suppose if you needed the magic guild to gain the spell (as with the talents) that description would be the same. As it is, i just wouldnt trust it. I mean, there could be some hidden necessary condition for the hero to "gain" the spell. I know in that case there isnt, but if there were, i believe the description would make no reference to it.
"Can learn", "gains", "(is)taught". Just semantics for what could very well be the same thing. How to discover what each means? Come to the forum (that is what i did... a bit late, but thanks again for explaining things). Come to the forum because the talent wheel descriptions are unreliable. |
"Can learn" and "learned."
If you see them having the same meaning, well... then I disagree. |
| Is it so diffucult to accept that your dreamworld is not the real one?And that you simply misunderstood it? |
Having the respective magic guild is a necessary condition for the talent to work
WRONG, you dont need higher magic guild for invest the talent to work.
take example:
magic guild level 1 and 2 provide spells for you to work even you dont have talent mastery. but, the problem is you will get less efficiency if you dont invest on talent mastery.
hence, to increase the spells effect, you have no choice to invest to basic/adv/expert mastery; we dont have ultimate in LWM although you can find it in HoMM.
so, you still CAN cast lv 1 and lv 2 spells without talent mastery to support. BUT, any spells higher than lv2 will need at least basic mastery except you are using wisdom talent to unlock it. |
additional to my last post:
even with wisdom, you can only cast to max lv3 spells. anything go beyond lv3 will be NO. |
When i said "Having the respective magic guild is a necessary condition for the talent to work" i was referring to the part where the talent says "hero can learn level 3 spells". I insist: hero CANNOT learn level 3 spells from that talent UNLESS he has built the magic guild. There is a great difference, one not stated in the description.
And yes, i misunderstood the description of the talents! That is my point! It should be clearer. I believe im not the first one to have a problem with that, nor will i be the last.
And yes, i now understand how it works. Thank you again :) |
hero CAN learn level 3 spells
CAN learn, not WILL learn. |
CAN learn, not WILL learn.
That is exactly what the talent should read: "hero will learn level 3 spells if magic guild level 3 has been built". |
First of all, stop trolling. It doesn't lead to anywhere besides more trolling.
The discussion about how things are phrased is moot and over as from now.
Thusly said, gramaticly everything is in order.
With the talents, the hero CAN learn the spells.
The guild provide the spells for him.
If he unlearns the talent, he doesn't have the wisdom to keep the spells.
Great. Thanks for understanding. |
