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| Author | Cards scripts, cheating at cards, etc. |
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I have been contacted by a person today that I cheat at cards. I have a guess about who is the person who spreads these rumours. There are other players who have been hurt by these lies too.
1.I would like to ask anyone who have recieved this pm to resend it to character "insults". I would love to be punished if I am guilty, otherwise, it would be nice if this person took responsibility for his actions.
2.If someone thinks there are scripts or any other kind of means to cheat during the card games, please step out and provide some evidence or at least use a direct approach and contact me about your suspicions through any game channel. I hope there are ways this can be discussed.
3.Using slander and lies behind persons back while avoiding any kind of direct contact with him is considered a behaviour of a coward. And cowards are not popular in most cultures. | "Hiya,
I noticed you have been playing some card games with this player, *****. Someone told me he uses a script (to see opponent's cards), and looking at games logs, and his winnings of almost 600k in a few weeks (about a month ago when I first received the message, now it's about 800k), it's possible as no one can be so 'lucky'.
Sometimes, he'll go ":(" during the start of games when the other player have good starting cards, like he can 'see' them..
Not implying anything, but just sharing and thought you might wanna know. To play with him or not, it's up to you. :)"
"TRUST me, there are scripts available. I have people sent me the scripts, and I tested it. It allows the player to see the other players cares. Not that hard to write. I reported that player, and he got blocked.
So don't tell me it's impossible to cheat in this game. If there are scripts written for the good of this game, there will be scripts written for the personal benefit of others.
I already suspects others of using such scripts, and have stopped playing with them. I have played close to 4000 games, I KNOW how the random program works. Sometimes, you get good cards, and sometimes, you get streaks where u get lousy cards. That's cool with me, no problem. I bet, I'm prepared to lose. But not when someone else is having an unfair advantage, or at least I feel that way.
It's 1 thing to be good, it's 1 thing to have the program give you good cards, BUT there's no way you could have played certain cards without..." | Now this is the kind of message you can recieve about various players. I would like to discuss these accusations openly.
TRUST me, there are scripts available. I have people sent me the scripts, and I tested it.
Please resend them to Arctic or Lexa then. I think they would be really interested because its the matter of this game`s security to stop people from using such scripts. If you have tested it, please would someone be so kind to explain, how can a script show me your cards without knowing YOUR password? | Sounds like a load of crap to me.
it's possible as no one can be so 'lucky'.
•Yes they can, it's the same principle with roulette, you have massive winners and you have massive losers.
I have people sent me the scripts, and I tested it.
•If this player has said they "tested" these scripts on Lords, then you have written proof that they have admitted to breaking the rules.
he'll go ":(" during the start of games when the other player have good starting cards, like he can 'see' them..
•Or perhaps this player is going :( , because he has awful start cards!
I reported that player, and he got blocked.
•I haven't heard of any players being blocked due to using scripts in cards (If someone who was quite good at cards with a high gamblers level and lots of profit off it got blocked, it would hardly go unnoticed!). If this fact is indeed true, perhaps that player could provide a link.
I don't believe this player has much basis to his accusations, rather, just bad luck. | This guy doesn't seem to have a clue about what scripting is.
The card game is a compiled flash app. Scripts are of no use here.
Only way to cheat at card game beside staged games is to hack the server as far as i know.
All this seems ludicrous. | I used to be about +100K from playing the Two Towers Game.
I hit an unlucky streak and fell to around even (+0K) in less than a month.
I'm slowly heading positive again, being at about +15K at the moment.
Believe me it can be very easy to have a good winning or losing streak. If the amounts you are betting are large you can easily win/lose hundred's of Ks of Gold. I usually play games for less than 2K gold and was able to lose 100K, so if you are betting 10K+ you could easily win many hundred's of K gold in a short time.
Have Fun
Grunge | If you ask me then my opinion is this:
- this card game is simple enough to learn
- so after 1000 played games you know the optimal (on average) decisions what to do in each situation
- some decisions you make for your specific opponent (if you study how he plays, etc.)
- I mean that after 1000 games played you are as good as other experienced players at that game (there is nothing more to learn)
- if you play for no gold or low gold then you often meet not experienced players and your win/loss ration may be good
- if you play for > 1000 gold then you play only with experienced players, i.e. with players as good as you are (with some exceptions, like 12 year kids, etc.) and it is very unlikely to win more than 1 million
- it is easy to talk about "give me hard evidence" when you know that no player can give such evidence, because the only way to prove that is to have full access to server
- I'm not implying that there are cheaters, I'm just saying that it is very unlikely to win more than 1 million without cheats
- two types of cheaters might be involved here:
1) sending gold from his multi (not dangerous, you can ignore that, at least I don't care about such cases)
2) true cheater, using some scripts with which he can do some unfair things, like see your cards (I think it is possible) or even control which cards you or he gets (impossible without full hacking to server - I don't think that so experienced hackers play this game, because they are workaholics in real life and don't have the time for games)
- again, I'm not saying that there are cheaters in Two Towers game (anyway, I don't have a proof)
- and this is not the same as roulette, because:
1) in TTG you have advantage against not experience players, so you can win some small amount of gold without much luck
2) I believe there are some unfair to players things involved in roulette (since we have last archive only January 2010 archive), but here I won't go deeper into that. | You do realise that even if you could see your opponents cards, it shouldn't realistically effect the outcome of a game against an experienced opponent? After all there is no card that can prevent you playing a card if you have the resources to play it. And reducing the opponents resource production is an obvious way to help win the game, so most experienced players are already trying to achieve that objective to weaken their opponents position anyway.
Experienced players are well aware of most of the cards in the game and are often prepared for some of the most dangerous cards an opponent *could* play?
For example, one of the most dangerous cards that can be played with lots of Ore is the Wall Swap card. But if you are experienced and watching the way a person is playing you can often tell if they have such a card. You can also minimize the effect of such a card by playing carefully yourself. Apart from the Dragon card, no card does more than 13 damage to a wall, so you don;t really need to have a wall bigger than around 13 points to protect against most damage cards (at least those that are stopped by walls), so building a much bigger wall is just asking for a big disadvantage if your opponent plays the Wall Swap. Another way you can tell if an opponent has the Wall Swap card is simply because they play wall cards with complete abandon (20+ wall), as they have no fear of their wall getting too small, because they know that they can always steal yours if they need it (of course they could also be oblivious to the existance of such a card; take your pick). The only time it is worth building your wall higher than around 13 points is when your opponents wall is higher than yours. After all there are several cards that can do nasty things to you if your opponent's wall is higher than yours. But in this case the Wall Swap card would be ineffectual anyway, because both players should have a decent wall.
Insight like this should come naturally to any experienced player. While it may feel like they can "see" some of the cards that you have in your hand, it is more likely that they are anticipating the worst of a range of cards you *could* have in your hand for the resources you have available, and minimizing the damage that could be inflicted upon them. This process of maximizing detriment to your opponent while also maximizing benefit to yourself is the natural result of the learning process of any even mildly intelligent person playing many, many games.
A similar process happens in battles, but since such things are entirely visible to the public it is obvious when someone has made a smart or stupid move. As you become a better player you tend to make less stupid moves and more smart moves. And your game improves as a result. And even in battles, sometimes people just get lucky and win anyway. It happens, get over it. People should stop wasting time trying to invent reasons why they lost (which doesn't really help anyone) and instead spend time trying to improve their game, so that are more likely to win in the future.
Have Fun
Grunge | You do realise that even if you could see your opponents cards, it shouldn't realistically effect the outcome of a game against an experienced opponent?
Are you serious? Why don't you and I test your statement, by playing, say, 10 games, wherein on every round you tell me exactly what 6 cards you have? | You do realise that even if you could see your opponents cards, it shouldn't realistically effect the outcome of a game against an experienced opponent?
Oh, believe me, it would drastically change the average outcome (of course you can't always win, but knowing enemy cards would greatly increase your chances to win).
Very often only tiny things matter (like +3 mana or +1 tower, etc.) and knowing your opponent's cards completely changes chance to win (I believe it's like additional +20% chance to win).
Yes, there are general rules by which you play, when it doesn't matter what cards your opponent has (like never build too big wall and many other obvious rules).
If a player is experienced and he knows the enemy cards then he has big advantage (if opponent don't see your cards). | You must remember that players only have a very limited selection of cards in their hand at any one time. And knowing what your opponent can do doesn;t mean that you will have the cards to do anything about it.
I've already PMed Geryon about playing some games as he described, and I will happily do so with others to the limit that the difference of knowing your opponents cards is fairly small.
I do think knowing your opponents cards could give you a slight edge, but I don;t think it would be as much as mentioned here. I would think more in the region of 5% to 10% difference.
Grunge | Slight error. Paragraph 2 of Post # 11 should read "...to *demonstrate* the limit that..."
Have Fun
Grunge | 2) true cheater, using some scripts with which he can do some unfair things, like see your cards (I think it is possible) or even control which cards you or he gets (impossible without full hacking to server - I don't think that so experienced hackers play this game, because they are workaholics in real life and don't have the time for games)
I'm not implying that there are cheaters, I'm just saying that it is very unlikely to win more than 1 million without cheats
First thing, yes you are implying there are cheaters. In the same sentence. And this is what makes my skin burn. Seriously: HOW would a script see your cards without knowing your password/ hacking the server? And giving you better cards, wow, thats a whole bucket of something.
PS: If you think after 1000 games, you are as experienced as any other player, well it depends. At each level of bets(starting with 200 gold) there are better players. If you want to make profit, you have to choose higher level only after you have mastered your opponents on the previous one(80% victory count should be enough). Thats how you learn to play those freaking cards. After 5000 games, you can see matrix. | | Basic logic behind this: Illegal Script can emulate your presence in game. Do things for you that you can do when you are there, but it does them 24/7. ex. enroll, buy, sell, move, perhaps even play hunts. Doing something you cannot do normally in the game, its like saying "you have a script that creates diamonds." | | Should we know the sender's id, and invite him/her join the discussion? :p | - so after 1000 played games you know the optimal (on average) decisions what to do in each situation
i disagree.. the best decision depends on so many factors.. opponents resources, cards they may have, cards you may draw next, etc etc
the game is not simple enough to master in 1000 games, unless you are a bonefide genius. which in your case Robai, possibly applies!
those who believe in cheating are thoes who see it as a game of luck
the simple truth is, although luck will win you many games, skill will see you good in the long run. it is very rare that i lose more than 4 in a row or lose more than 20 out of any given 40 (the amount of games per page on game log).. that's not luck it's consistent good decision making
the obvious comparison is poker. good players will consistently win at that game of 'luck' also. | to Grunge: your example with the shift card is the most obvious of all the 'predictions', and i'm sure many other people will think it's the only way to predict. so here are some other examples:
1. In GC, opponent has mine 2, tower 35 and plays mine collapse. Obviously, he needs the mana or the wall to protect tower for damage. It differs from person to person, but generally, i would think he has diamond/dragon's eye.
2. Opponent plays several monastery cards (harmony, die mould, power explosion etc.) He must have parity.
3. Whenever I play, I keep a lookout on opponents mana and stacks to see what cards they can play. For example, if opponent has tower 39 in GC, i am safe only until opponent has 8 mana (enough for solidification). but, if i use even smoky quartz, opponent needs at least 16 mana to win in a turn (besides quartz).
4. In single deck games, you can take this even further. If solidification and sapphire have both been played recently, a GC tower of 39 is not a big problem until the opponent has 16 mana for diamond.
there are several more ways to tell what the opponent's cards are. preparing for the worst is always the best way to win the card game. | in terms of what is possible - you could with a great deal of programming knowledge create a client-side program which would play you card games for you.
you would need to be a very good player and a far better programmer to make this cards-bot competitive let alone brilliant .. but .. this sort of thing is possible. however nobody is using such a thing. | Should we know the sender's id, and invite him/her join the discussion? :p
i have no desire to defend him, it's Jedi-Knight. he started spreading these lies about me in a deliberate attempt to sabotage my playing of this game - he would send messages to everyone who played me for high stakes (including qulows, one of my clanmates) in order to warn them that "he had heard" that i use a script!!
"not implying anything"!!
go on Jedi, join in the discussion. | | the saddest part of this is that more than one person believed him and passed this warning on to other players :( |
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