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| Author | Moderator Discussion |
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There has been quite a great deal made about moderators, their role, and their 'abuse' as of late from a few players. I have decided to open a CONSTRUCTIVE thread so we can, together, discuss any ongoing problems that may be going on.
Please, if you have a relevant question, wish to truly solve a problem, or bring something constructive to the attention of the moderators, we look forward to hearing from you.
MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS PART BEFORE POSTING HERE:
This will be a friendly and beneficial thread topic! If you have posts to add to this, be certain to refrain from defamation, liable, or blanket statements against mods or players. In addition, purposely sarcastic statements and those without facts/evidence will be considered devisive and anti-productive. These posts will be deleted and the poster banned heavily. If you have personal grudges against a single mod/player, this is probably not the place to post it. | | Topic moved from "Off-game forum" to "General game forum". | I have 2 comments to make:
1) I think that moderators need to go as a single group with one voice and ask to be given powers to fine obvious cheats. I mean the ones who have blatant multis, dont return loans (whether with a transfer description or not) or "steal" TGI's.
2) I think that moderators should not be involved with or members of any clans (except MOD ones). If they wish to be a part of a clan at a later date then they should be allowed to resign as moderators and do this. | well, i got the feeling that there is a big amount of frustration and plain anger in a lot of players here - directed at the mods.
i guess these are projections. mods are an just an "available" target - but i think most of these negative feelings are in fact directed towards and generatet by admins and there absence. mods fill in the role of officials in this game and thus they become the object anger is directed to. this, to some extend, is a normal and healthy reaction in human beings.
simple said: a lot of people appear/ are quite frustrated. this feelings are umleashed at mods, may it be rightfull or not.
now i think that (some - not all!) mods sustain this process.
first:
by defending the admins politics with this server. often we hear statements like "they have other plans", implying that mods now about admins goals for the game (on .com). first (some months ago) i believed them. but now i think we see that mods have the same insight in admins intentions as everybody - meaning no clue.
my proposal here:
say it. make statements like "nobody - neither we nor the community - know". it will make mods more trustworthy.
second:
mods have quite a big power - the power of the last word. gamers possibilitys to argue with mods are limited. sometimes we (at least that's true for me) feel exposed to this power. threads sometimes are closed or even deleted without valid explanation (hapened to me once - and i'm sure the mod that did it didn't read my thread properly).
i have two proposals here:
- don't be afraid to "loose your face". stay human. we all make mistakes - and are (hopefully) forgiven if we appologize.
- second one is more important: don't be to eager to act. meaning that mods should reduce there working at a NEEDED minimum. sometimes i have the feeling that some mods just like to do something - read their own names in forum, ban indifferently and for bans will, be known without beeing constructive...
third:
mods should try to get more power (seems contradictionary to my former argument). but i mean the power to realy work for the better of the game. this game is overrun with multis, cheaters and thieves (and i don't mean the ones from the guild). ain't it obvious that gamers that play by the rules and are getting punished - for, let's say, to much caps or a similar minor transgress - feel sore when at the same time a cheater with a network of 20 multis goes on unpunished?
so my suggestion:
mods ought to show the community that we need them. get more influence in the parts of the game that realy matter.
i hope nobody's feeling offended. mods do valuable work. mods also do things that undermine their integrity. they are human beings after all, right?
human beings strive for the better...
thanks for this thread - it was long needed. | Moderators should become mediator between Players and Administrator/Developer. IMO, this is the main function. We don't see that happen here, do we?
I read somewhere in the forum.. that actually Admins do read the forum (despite of them being invisible all the time). You should try to contact and communicate with them.
So, IMO.. maybe you can do some of these tasks:
1. Ask for help from some Russian players (if necessary) to translate our problem into Russian language and send it to Admin (maybe it will be better to send it @.ru )
2. If you want to be proactive and really care about this community and want to help improve it, maybe you can use the special forum for moderators to discuss ALL rules, and make a "new" DRAFT rule which is better, clear and do not need any personal interpretation (especially some parts that really need explanation like : giveaway, staged battle, bumping etc). You can send it to Admin, and ask for their approval. If they agree, then the new rule will be changed. And please give some times to socialize it and make sure that all players know about this.
3. If you feel that what I wrote above are too much and hard to do, ask for help from some players. I believe... there are some players here that are willing to help you. | | I agree that the extent to which the mods hold the admin line, which is not really credited by the players, doesn't do much to make us all one big happy community. Such as when there is a question about a mod's call, and the mod says to take it to the Secretary, as far as the player is concerned they might as well be dismissing it out of hand, since the players have no confidence that the Secretary even reads messages. | i would like to read about the moderators side of view too, their own thoughts about the situation.
and by the way - i think it would be a good think not to discuss. for once, everybody should state their own view. not argue or dispute, just tell how they see it, how they feel...
there is no right or wrong in feelings - and it could have a cleansing effect on some overcooking emotions... but don't forget: .If you have personal grudges against a single mod/player, this is probably not the place to post it
but maybe this is not the intention of the starter of this thread. in this case just ignore this post | Maybe I should give more example of what I mean in #5.
Thanks to Dan-panic who sent me a pm.. .I realize that what I wrote in #5 may give you wrong perception of what I want.
Dan said that giving too much example will make players find a hole in the rule.
And this is my answer to him
I said "better, clear and do not need any personal interpretation."
I didn't say: "Detail with every possible example included"
Let me give you an example:
Instead of just saying that : "Giveaway battle is forbidden".
Isn't it better if the rule is something like this?
Giveaway battle is forbidden. Giveaway battle is when you let your opponent get something like Experience point and/or Faction Skill point. Giveaway battle is different than intentional lose. Even when you win, but if you let the situation mentioned above, your battle will still be categorized as Giveaway battle.
| another point:
mods often give me the feeling that they hide in an ivory tower. this thread is a prove that they do not, but it comes rather late. you all must have felt the amount of frustration and anger in the community.
proposal here:
try to act quicker on "mass-effects". i don't mean on one or two players complaining, but when you feel that things get out of hand and the masses suffer from great discontent you have to do something (like beginning a thread like this one) soon, very soon...
yet another point:
don't forget *rises warning finger* =)
in the end, you are here for US, not the other way round.
so statements like "These posts will be deleted and the poster banned heavily" may be needed (i'm personaly not sure of it), but the are again a display of power. and i think in times like these (or in fact everytime) we need helping friends - not punishing masters. by we of course i mean the gamers that go by the rules.
my proposal here:
just accept some amount of frustration and according reactions. this may be a request a bit to demanding.
but don't forget: people ARE frustrated, and you too demand quite a lot when you ask an angry mob to be constructive =) | Oh yea thanksSkunder these were my qestions before my topic got vanished:
Question 1 (to everyone):
Do we need more moderators? If yes, what types?
Question 2 (to everyone):
Do moderators need more power? Like ability to block cheaters? What are the benefits and consequences of moderator empowerment?
Question 3 (to moderators):
How did you become a moderator? What did you sign up for?
Question 4 (to moderators):
Do you think moderators need to be monitored if empowered? Should they step back when (if) tired or not performing? Do you think a good turn over of moderator is a good thing (turnover = maybe a one year term?)?
Thanks | for h4nd:
Giveaway battle is forbidden. Giveaway battle is when you let your opponent get something like Experience point and/or Faction Skill point. Giveaway battle is different than intentional lose. Even when you win, but if you let the situation mentioned above, your battle will still be categorized as Giveaway battle.
There will still be people who will want to find find loopholes in vague statements and say that because we didn't clearly state anything, it's not punishable.
Adding that Giveaway combats is punishable was supposed to be an explanation of Improper conduct in battles. People always want something more detailed and once you get there, people will find loopholes. So loopholes when vague and loopholes when detailed. Either way, it's bad.
For Zarebrant:
in the end, you are here for US, not the other way round.
Oh, come on... We'll all here for the game. Some of us that have contributed have just been asked to help out more. We aren't here just to serve you, we're here to serve the game that all of us play.... (and yes, I see the smiley..)
for Gyver:
Question 1 (to everyone):
Do we need more moderators? If yes, what types?
As a player: Yes... need more people to handle the chaos
Question 2 (to everyone):
Do moderators need more power? Like ability to block cheaters? What are the benefits and consequences of moderator empowerment?
As a player: Only selected people. Easier Control and Power management. Besides, if all could do it, what happens if they have differing opinions on a matter? A "Fine->Fine lifted->Fine->Fine lifted" situation may occur.
Question 3 (to moderators):
How did you become a moderator? What did you sign up for?
By contributing to the community. Sign up? I did?
Question 4 (to moderators):
Do you think moderators need to be monitored if empowered? Should they step back when (if) tired or not performing? Do you think a good turn over of moderator is a good thing (turnover = maybe a one year term?)?
Monitored? Yes. Step Back/Take a break when necessary? Yes, but not that often.
Turn Over? No. Consistency is better than having opinions of rules change every few months due to one of the mods changing over. | for Takesister:
There will still be people who will want to find find loopholes in vague statements and say that because we didn't clearly state anything, it's not punishable.
So?? We can update the rule, can't we? . Isn't it what already happened so far?
As the game progress, many things that somehow were not thought possible in the beginning, just happened. And we change the rule.
Where do you think rule about financial supporting, or even change in Exp / FSP formula was changed to accommodate players like Ethereality and Wildshooter comes from? (sorry guys.. I borrow your character here) | Sorry I forgot to mention something.
What I mean by "do not need personal interpretation' is personal interpretation about 'the rule'. Not personal interpretation about 'the case'
I agree that sometimes Mods have to rely on their personal interpretation when judging a case. But it is absurd if 'the rule' need personal interpretation to be understood what it's mean.
Can you see the difference?
What I mean is: We should not need any personal interpretation of the rule. The rule should be understood clearly.
Look at the rule now. We have many points in rule (which is generally good enough and detail, although not perfect).
Just imagine if this game has only 1 rule.
"Cheating is not allowed".
What is cheating?? I can say that cheating is when you ask for help in hunting.
Other players can say... No, it is not cheating. So... what is cheating?
What is allowed and what is not allowed ? Confusing isn't it?
That's why the rule has to be clear.
IRL, my previous job was to make Standard Operating Procedures. So, believe me.. I have experience with how something bad happened with unclear rule. And this is in real life. Not in game... | | It's only fair to add more mods to this game and give a chance to other players to try to server empire because who knows they might do a GREAT job:) | for h4nd:
That's the point. People find loopholes, we plug the loophole. They find a loophole in the plug, we plug that... and soon the rules are so convoluted that no one knows what they are and people will be very frustrated about the game and what they can and cannot do.
Once the rule IS clear, it'll become too complex since it has to cover every possibility to the point no one knows the rules. Allowing for interpretation allows the admin and mods to stop people from abusing the rules, but people won't know the rules either.
Example:Giveaway battle is forbidden. Giveaway battle is when you let your opponent get something like Experience point and/or Faction Skill point. Giveaway battle is different than intentional lose. Even when you win, but if you let the situation mentioned above, your battle will still be categorized as Giveaway battle.
You say that this is better, clear and does not need any personal interpretation.
Someone will ask if how many Experience points difference between what is accepted and what happened is considered letting your opponent and what is accepted. Does that mean that if I moved a Infected zombie 'wall-ing' up my Skeleton archers in order to Infected strike his Titan and allowing his gargs to attack my skeleton archers, I am giving away exp and fsp?
What is "something like Experience point and/or Faction Skill point"? Does letting my opponent attack my partner in a GB so I can concentrate on her partner be considered giveaway? What is an opponent? Does give exp and fsp to the AI count? Does wanting to lose an opponent just to get into a better bracket in a tournament or in order to face a different opponent in the next round of a tournament count? Isn't that strategy on my part?
Once we answer those and add that to the rules that covers that, someone will test the boundaries of that again. Then we have to either stop there and let it be vague and up to Personal interpretation, or cover every base. We end up with a middle ground (and thus the rules as listed), but the amount of coverage of the rules is also up to personal interpretation | i would like to say that ppl mainly hate mods cuz they ban tem from chat.all mods shud give them atleast 3 chances.if after those 3 warnings also if they spam or flood then u have the right to ban them.but some mods r hasty and ban them without even giving them a warning.SO i wud request All mods to be patient.
Best Regards
Moony | for Takesister:
*sigh*
You missed my point :( But I will let others give their opinion first in this thread. | I believe most people play games to take a break from RL, to have fun, to pass the time away or even to forget somethings in RL for awhile. So I believe games should have a relaxing atmosphere, should be different from RL.
From what I see, most of our problems in this game is derived from the fact that multis are allowed; I know what the game allow the multis for, but is it really necessary ? If no multis are allowed, i.e., only a single character per user, many of our problems will be solved. Transfer of gold, arts, etc. would not be a problem anymore, in fact no more than 30% of worth can be given as gift would not be needed anymore, what one character has would have been earned through enrolling or some financial effort, so he/she should be allowed to do whatever he/she wants with his/her hard earned gold, arts, etc., just as in RL.
As for staged combat and the like, does it really affect other players that much ? Some people like to level up fast while others like to do it leisurely, some go fast and maybe gets bored easily and transfers to another game, others play slow but stays a long time, either way, having fun is what is important in a game, isn't it ?
Everyone will have his/her own way of looking at a game, I'm just writing what I think/believe will be good. Anyway, as a suggestion, I would say dis-allowing multis should bring some good to this game.
Sorry if I've gone way off topic. | | h4nd, post 5:
Unfortunately, the roll of Moderator remains as ‘unwanted police officer’ until admins do make themselves more approachable to us. Whatever the reason – language barrier, busyness, hiding – we are at their mercy.
1) This has been done. Some players even took it on themselves to do so, and got banned for speaking English. =P But truthfully, we have a better means to get a hold of them, though sometimes it is unreliable at best.
2) First: statements like “if we want to be proactive and really care” is a bit offensive to us, especially at this point in our conversation. Secondly, this has already been implemented. As Takesister has said though, we are not looking to create such a detailed rule list that requires a lawyer to understand it, or will be tested by those looking for loopholes. One idea that came to mind was to create a ‘DO LIST’. That being, to not list the “Don’ts”, but simply say what each game function allows. Thoughts on this?
3) Truthfully, it is not in our power to hire, take on, or approve outside help from outside the moderator staff. That remains a task of the admins. I believe that open forums – sort of like a Town Hall meeting approach (such as this topic) might be used moreso in the future.
passo, post 6:
As to the best of my knowledge, the Secretary works. In most cases even I use it when other options are not provided me. However, the facts of the Secretary are that it is checked by most likely, far too few people and so the work piles up. I would like to refer back to what I said above though, that it would be best if mods took the time to hear complaints (thus doing what’s NOT listed in the rules) and come to a happier conclusion. An apology if necessary. This doesn’t mean everyone will, nor every time. Nor that a player’s case SHOULD have an apology, etc.
Zarebrant, post 9
Ivory Towers are for princesses in the book/movie Neverending Story, not mods. =D
My statement wasn’t for those who follow the rules, but for those who DO and OFTEN break the rules. I wouldn’t have put a statement like that if I hadn’t spent countless hours reading countless forums where 1 or 2 players get out of hand, accusing and getting off course with tangents and defamation. On top of this, just today I spent 2 hours cleaning out PM’s because a player feels it necessary to “jab a mod” whenever he gets the chance. I don’t blacklist players (except I think one player about a year ago). But this was moreso to keep the thread on topic.
We’re here for the game Zare. As are you. Besides, mods have feelings too Zare. :cry: |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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