| Author | Offense vs Defense |
|---|
when a troop with expert offense attacking a troop with expert defense ,final damage=?
100%?
or 1.3 * 0.7 = 91%? |
| 1.3 * 0.7 = 91% |
defence is alaways last to count on calculations so :
91% |
defence is alaways last to count on calculations so :
This has nothing to do with order. Multiplication is commutative.
1.3 * 0.7 = 0.7 * 1.3 = 91%
Expert offense and defense don't cancel each other out, they combine. |
| so expert def is stronger as exp. ofense,because 91 perc. of damage,thats interesant |
| It's not stronger, because magic damage doesn't depend of defense, so attack could be more useful sometimes. |
| yes cold blade and enchant dont depends on defence |
yes cold blade and enchant dont depends on defence
I don't know about that. It depends on whether the extra damage comes in as a multiplication factor or as an addition term. For example, with Cold Blade + Expert Offense + Expert Defense, I don't know whether
final damage = 1.15 * 1.3 * 0.7
or
final damage = .15 + 1.3 * 0.7
I think the former is more likely, but no one has been able to tell me for sure. |
extra damage comes in as a multiplication factor
Expert offence + Cold blade = 30% and 15% = 100%-(100%-30%)(100%-15%)
= 40.5%
Thus final damage = 1.405 * 0.7 (expert defence) |
expert offence + cold blade is simply 1.3 * 1.15 = 1.495
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1851121&page=1#133691 |
Is it "extra magic damage" means "extra irresistible damage"?
expert off + cb vs expert def
so final=(130%+15%) * 0.7 = 101.5% ?
or =130% * 0.7 +15% = 106 % ? |
Nope, extra damage can be resisted.
Or at least to the best of my knowledge. |
@Takesister:
With your formula, extra elemental damages would be reduced by armor, wich i think is wrong.
Or am i missing something? |
Or am i missing something?
probably defence apply before the multiplier
consider the variable D as the damage done, basically D= the damage formula we know ( N*RND(min,max)*(1-0.03*factionskill)*(attack|defence differential)
offence talents or elemental damage are multiplier of the D *after* the effect of attack parameter / defence parameter is considered.
Say, we have 100 farmer( damage range 1-1) with 1 attack attacking something with 1 defence
they will deal 100 damage, multiplied per offence talent, multiplied per elemental modifier.
Say, they now attack something with 21 defence.
they now do 50 damage, multiplied per offence talent, multiplied per elemental modifier.
Short said, attack and defence parameter effect is before any multiplier is taken into account |
With your formula, extra elemental damages would be reduced by armor, wich i think is wrong.
It cuts both ways. The extra damage is reduced by armor/defense, but also augmented by high attack. I think you'd want it to work that way. |
| That's why DE with Full Offense Talents always have troubles against full arts knights (Full Defence) with full defence talents .. :( That is terrible also For elves in PvP and Ambushing .. :) |
With your formula, extra elemental damages would be reduced by armor, wich i think is wrong.
Or am i missing something?
I'm quite sure the extra elemental damage is reduced by armour |
Here are some maths i've recently done.
It is based on a fight from antos where the only extra damage he uses are advanced offence + cold blade. I took the angel attacking mistresses since angels have 45-45 damage. This removes the random parameter.
You can watch the fight here:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482008120
Angel
att:49
base dmg: 45-45
modifiers: adv off + cold blade
mistresses
def:6
final damage (When the two angels attack the mistresses): 391 damage
Lets start whith the basic damage calculation:
D = N * RND(min, max) * [1 + 0,05 (A-D) ] * [1 - 3*Y/100]
D = 2 * 45 * (1 + 0.05 * 43) * 1
D = 283.5
Now lets see how many extra damage is needed to get from 283.5 to 391:
391/285.5 = 1,3695271453590192644483362521891
when rounded it gives ~37% extra damage.
Now here is what seems to be the damage calculation for extra damages.
Final damage = (D + 20%) + 15%
283.5 + 20% = 340.5
340.5 + 15% = 391.575
or
Final damage = (D + 15%) + 20%
283.5 + 15% = 326.025
326.025 + 20% = 391.23
I've also tried to find a formula where CB ignores armor, but it didn't work:
CBD (cold blade damage)=
N * [RND(min, max)] * [1 + 0,05 (A) ] * [1 - 3*Y/100] * 0.15
= 2*45* 3.45 * 0.15
= 46.575
now if we do :
(CBD + basic damage) + 20% = 330.075 + 20% = 330.075 + 66.015 = 396.09
CBD + (basic damage + 20%) = 46.575 + (283.5 + 20%) = 46.75 + 340.2 = 386.95
Not sure wich one of this is the right formula (if one actually is). A higher damaging attack would be needed for more accuracy.
It seems that extra damage doesn't ignore armor but is cumulative.
Since armor seems to affect cold blade damages, the defence talent probably do the same. |
Since armor seems to affect cold blade damages, the defence talent probably do the same.
this is an improper use of terms.
armor don't affect cold blade damage, armor don't even exist.
defence and attack *parameter* affect the damage before any multiplier is applied, be it offence talent, defence talent or elemental damage
be D the damage done, D is determined by attack and defence parameter, THEN various multiplier are applied, be it a *1.15 of cold blade or *0.9 of basic defence |
With your formula, extra elemental damages would be reduced by armor, wich i think is wrong.
Or am i missing something?
Extra Elemental damage (Cold Blade, enchantments, etc.) is just that - extra damage. Extra troop damage, to be exact. And troop damage is reduced by Defense. Elemental damage differ from regular damage because some reduction may affect it specifically, like defense enchantments worn by Hero protecting the whole army, or magic resistance or immunity from the target stack.
Hero damage (magical or mundane), is NOT affected by Defense. Nor Expert defense, etc. |
