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| Author | question about one of the new rules 1.5.1. |
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1.5.1. The Administration has a right to cease access to the service for users whose in-game behavior is a dedicated assist to another character or group of characters.
I leased a thief invitation to someone (mirana) a while ago. She managed to blow all her arts+resources+elements+gold on roulette the same day!
Anyway, she has been trying to do the thief missions ever since, and mostly loses because it is very expensive to finish them. I saw her play with weak arts, and win 1 in 10. I grew impatient, and desperate, because she has a huge debt to me/clan.
Either way, mirana owes 2 thief arts and a return thief invite at level 2...and the only way I will get those back within a reasonable time-line is if I help her with cheap art rentals and gold loans. The 2 thief arts + level 2 invitation are worth over 500k, so the assistance would be well under the 30% gift rule of not only that value, but my own personal worth which is in excess of 1 million gold. Further, I have stated on my profile since I started financially aiding her that I would be helping her with some gold+arts so that I can get the above mentioned items back 'someday.' Sooner, rather than later, is my hope.
I do not wish to violate the rules, but I would like a formal reply from the administration on this, since this aid is only temporary, and this rule seems to hint at complex multi-player money laundering/abuse-gift-giving folks that are rooted in a spirit of permanence. Once I have those 3 things back, mirana is left to play like a normal player...and no longer is my problem/burden.
If the administration were able to return thief invites manually in such/similar cases, it would save a lot of people from unnecessary stresses resulting from an 80 euro investment left to hang in the balance of a 'stranger's' good will.
Even my good friend Shaddar ran into a problem, he leased his invitation, and the guy turned around and said "I am going to stop doing thief ambushes until I'm level 8." Then Shaddar said something like "but you'll be late for sure, and I need that invitation back" and the guy said something along the lines of "I don't take kindly to threats, I'll just stop playing if you are going to charge me more."
What else can he do but wait if he ever hopes to see his arts+invitation? Nothing. In any case, Mirana is willing to finish up the thief ambushes, and plans on quitting the game once she is done because of the current AP situation and the 'slow gold' gain found on this server (which I also hope the Admins will fix/address). Granted that such matters happen rarely, but they do happen enough, to where the admins should reconsider their involvements regarding debts concerning thief invitations. A gold penalty or ban doesn't help the wronged parties, a return of the TGI does, though.
Respectfully,
LS | | Topic moved from "Complaints and applications" to "Queries and help". | Someplayers already lost TGI ( you may read it as lost +500k, or 80 euro), without any compensation.
3.17. The Administration does not take responsibility for the unreturned debts and does not guarantee compensation in case of swindling by other players. When a loan is not returned in time, (the time must be written in the transfer logs) the swindler will be imposed a penalty of a sum twice as much. If the term isn't posted in the transfer logs, the penalty will occur 1 month after the loan transaction. The creditor does not get compensation. | That was already implied, Levy....hence why I said the administration should consider reviewing their policy so that it doesn't happen anymore--or put good people in awkward situations like I find myself in now because of the way this rule 'could' be interpreted.
Normally I wouldn't even worry, but there are a lot of jealous people out there that could possibly report me for safeguarding a valuable interest, and rather than let that happen, I'll see if the admins will allow this to continue given the special circumstances of this situation :)
If the admins won't give me another TGI, then they should let me help mirana, so that I get my TGI+arts (substantial investment) back the good old fashioned way. | | She owes the administration a million gold? Pheeew! | The way this game is setup, loans and leasing are pretty much unsecured loans or credit cards. Because of this those leasing out TGI should treat it as a large personal or business loan, which means you should screen applicants and charge fairly high interest rates.
Although current TGI leasing have fairly high interest rates (enough so that players buy them specifically to earn gold by leasing), there is no real screening of the renters. This is just like the real life mortgage industry. Just screen your renters/borrowers and don't expect a bailout from the administration. | Funny you mention bailout, Pantheon...
I am not asking for a bailout, quite simply, the opposite. I am asking the administration to let me bailout Mirana via low rent fees and gold loans, so that I can get my TGI (and 2 thief arts that should more than cover the gold I will need to invest in Mirana to finish the job) back.
If--and only if--the new rule is in conflict with that, then the administration should allow me an exemption so that I can get my TGI back at 'my' personal cost. Then, after that is done, if they wish to ban Mirana they can do so...but Mirana already told me she was going to be taking a break and/or quitting the game entirely because of this new AP in all combats rule.
Cheers,
LS | I am more than willing to flex my gold to get the TGI back, but if I am not allowed to do that, then the administration should give it back to me manually. This item was leased before the rules changed, my profile was updated with the fact I would be loaning/renting arts strictly to Mirana with this purpose (she was the first person I rented an invitation to, imagine that), so if anything this would be covered by a 'Grandfather' clause of sorts by most ruling entities.
But as earlier mentioned, way above, I don't want to run through the embarrassment of being reported again for something that I feel is not wrong as per the current rules by anyone for any reason. So better just explain myself as thoroughly as possible in hopes that clear reason sheds some color in the commonly black and white world that often regulates rules and law.
I had rented some arts to mirana earlier, and most of them just expired. I will wait before renting her more arts at way below market prices for the administration to pass judgement on this. But I really want that TGI back, and I rather she do the missions at my expense, than scare her off and lose this thing forever.
As mentioned, this is temporary, not permanent...my character is not being as a dedicated assist to any one group of people or person, but in this one specific case, it could be construed as such without full disclosure--which I have laid out throughout this entire article.
Cheers,
LS | #7
Actually the bailout is referring to the 2nd part of your first post. In there you basically wanted the admin to help you out. The first half of your post you are modifying your loan to Mirana to help her out, so she doesn't go declare bankruptcy.
#8
If the rules were changed, I would agree with that you should be "Grandfathered in". It was unfortunate that this was your first lease.
The AP minimum has nothing to do with TGI and in fact those thieving should use more arts than minimum AP. I would compare the AP minimum to a recession.
Though under the 30% gift rule I believe you can help Mirana out so you can back your TGI. The only grey area is what your actual personal net worth is. | The net worth is not a problem or grey area ^^
The only grey area is qouted above "in-game behavior is a dedicated assist to another character"
It is clear that I am willing to assist another character so that I can get the TGI back +2 thief arts...
And where I asked the admin to help out was if they decide I can't help mirana, then they should help me because this new rule could be misconstrued and twisted against my situation--which I agree with you, should be protected vis-a-vi a public grandfather clause acknowledgement by the administration :) | Please, will an admin please reply or contact me in private mail about this. Mirana is on vacation right now, and can play more than usual...we are stalling and wasting time.
I will rent her arts at full market price for now, but please, I need an official comment sooner than later because the gold I lent her won't last her very long without lower than market rents. | Great, just great. Mirana's gambling problem took hold of her again, and she blew all her gold (and by that I mean my gold) on the roulette again...
Admins please help me get my TGI back. I can lend her arts--because she can't gamble those away--so I can get my investment back. There is no other way besides you fellas giving it back to me manually and fining her heavy, she has proven herself yet again to be a roulette addict and so long as the rule above could be twisted against me, I am powerless to lend my arts for the sake of getting my TGI and 2 thief arts back =( | Actually I said that the rules weren't changed in regards to the TGI, so you shouldn't be "grandfathered in". But if they had been change, then you should have been accommodated.
The net worth issue is a problem since you are not just giving her gold, but also renting arts to her below market price. How would the 30% gift rule calculate into this?
The "in-game behavior is a dedicated assist to another character" isn't a problem because your character isn't a slave to hers. Both characters are played by different people from different IPs. Also you are just helping her and not some Level 1 alt made only to enroll in labor guild. | If they look at my transfer log, your statement is true, Pantheon. It would be clear that my purpose is not aimed at helping only Mirana.
But if they look in Mirana's transfer log, it would appear like I am a dedicated assist.
Hence the reason for starting this topic that the admins are yet to make an official comment on.
The grandfather clause point was simply that I had already agreed to lend mirana arts+some gold to rent them with before the above mentioned rule came into place.
In any case. I agree with you that the rule seems to be aimed at people whose 'sole' purpose is to benefit one person or group of persons. In my case, it is a temporary one. The administration has made no difference between the two, and since I have so much invested in this game, the risk is not worth taking.
The only way for me to get this TGI back is by basically coughing up the gold it will cost in arts because mirana has no self control in regards to the roulette. Either that, or Mirana buying up some diamonds to do it herself--possibility, but not very likely.
As for the 30% rule, renting even at 1 gold per battle, the value of those arts would be roughly a 999 gold loss per battle to me. Full market price I have calculated that it costs roughly 1,000 gold in arts to do a caravan. I am worth well over 30,000 gold....so each 'discount' would be far, far less than the 30% rule.
I might be worrying over nothing, but as with any matter that draws concern, once you have it in writing...there is no worrying. | Well Mirana, after blowing all her gold+arts on roulette again, has not logged on since.
All of this because the administration failed to contact me in private as to whether or not I could legally assist this player, so that I could get my TGI back and 2 thief arts.
20,000 of my gold down the drain, and quite possibly a TGI.
Thanks a lot fellas. Only needed a few minutes of your time, and still, no comment.
I hope she comes back by next week, so I can talk with her, and so that hopefully by then the Admins have spoken on this question. But if she should not reappear, then I hope the admins are more available when I formally give up on this matter, and ask she be fined the 600,000 gold, or blocked...or whatever the punishment is nowadays for stealing a Thief Guild Invitation.
It really bothers me that this could have all been avoided, if the admins had given my inquiry a few minutes of attention the day I posted this. | Mirana logged again today...miracle, please, she is still willing to do the ambushes, but I just need permission to assist her, please, will any admin please give me a few minutes of their attention.
I don't want to lose my TGI. | after 42 days only 30 wins (out of 120) do you really think you ll ever get it back?
Youre pumping more money in here then the invite is worth.... | It will cost me roughly 500-700 gold in arts each battle...invitation is worth 500k at least...
Do you think it will take her 1,000 battles to finish?
^^ | invitation is worth 500k at least
not anymore, price is dropping rapidly =)
But its your choice
Its just... what would happen if you pump 200 k gold in it, then she never comes online anymore.... | Would be impossible to drop that much...that would be, even with full arts, 330 battles or so...she needs 100, no way she can lose 1/3 with the arts I would be lending her lol.
Maybe she might lose 3 in 10. But even so, just the 2 thief arts I'd get, and sell in the market, would cover that investment, leaving the TGI free and clear :) But it is a risk worth taking on my part, clearly :) |
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