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| Author | Talent: Concentration |
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I have to say, works way different from what i expect after reading the description. I would have thought "Hero's defending stacks always retaliate the attackers (even if they have the "no retaliation" ability)" meant that units that defend get unlimited retaliation ability which works against no retaliation, too.
The second part (2 retals for units with unlimited retal, one before and one after the enemies attack) wouldn't apply to me, because i have no unlimited retal troops.
But, watching the test duel i did against Yangguo, it didn't work like that...
Defending troops only get one retaliation, too. But this retaliation comes before the enemies attack!
Test duel:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=5333818
First chance to see that: second move of blue rocs (3 of them) against defended 55 red wolf raiders: 3 rocs get retaliated before dealing damage and die. afterwards, 25 blue wolf raiders attack 55 red wolf raiders without getting retaliated at all.
Second scene: 8 defended red rocs get attacked by 24 blue wolf raiders and kill 14 of them before wolf raiders get in even their first strike of three. there was no follow up attack here, but i'm quite certain that would have worked normally without retaliation by the red rocs.
All in all, the description was quite misleading, at least for me, but the talent seems quite nice nevertheless. imagine the following classic situation: DE and barb stand to face each other, shrews come over and attack wolves. first time, there's not much the barb can do against that. but then, wolves (and let's say rocs also in range of Shrews) defend. That means a stack of shrews attacking any of these two units will get hit by the defending unit before it can deal damage itself! nice, but i still have to test if the retal comes first against no retal units, too.
this might be a combat instead of general problem, so please move if applicable, but in general, this is about a talent and it's description, and as there is no talent branch of the forums, i thought i'd post this here. | | too bad the troops have to be defending. if was just for when they get attacked, would be a beautiful talent. | | then it would be rigged >_> the attacking person would be defending too >> thus only ranged units can attack | | I disagree. it would be a way overpowered talent then ;) Imagine fighting a full attack barbarian whose units always strike first, whether attacking or defending, and who gets -20% melee damage because of advanced defense, and has +2 hit points for each of his 56 wolves alone... | | i agree would be ugly, just looking at what ifs | wo0nderful
o.0 | | my shrews will be in danger | | that's the point | | in reality, the talent is called "kill the shrews and vampires" | Me and Musculus haven't test the start of the battle yet, mean when we arrange the troop at the battle, the troop is consider defending or waiting?
if defending then the shrew will not get advantage to the first attack,
anyway if waiting then shrew still can get advantage of first attack even BB use concretration talent. | Me and Musculus haven't test the start of the battle yet, mean when we arrange the troop at the battle, the troop is consider defending or waiting
I believe is in waiting mode. If you check the unit status during combat begin, your unit do not have the defend bonus. So i assume it's waiting mode. | MeNoob has a good point. I suppose names can be misleading. :P
I am very disappointed though. When I read the description I had the same impression as Musculus. I was dreaming of Vampires with unlimited retaliation, that would have been a blast. Still, if you read the description carefully, the "always retaliate" is clarified in the parentheses ("always" as in "even against units with no retaliation"). Still, I think it could have been a bit more clear to avoid misunderstandings.
I have 1 question though... Only unit I know with unlimited retaliation that's in a faction, at least so far, is the Griffin (unless my mind doesn't deceive me that is...). Would that mean that Griffins get to retaliate twice for every attack when defending? If that be the case, wouldn't it make knights a bit too strong? | | Of course not, just zap defending griffins with spells or use ranged units to kill them | i was thought it should work on that way? i expect the defending stack will attack before get attacked for 1st incoming attack AND retal again.
but, the following incoming attack will still retal and always after get attacked but no longer retal before get attacked.
Would that mean that Griffins get to retaliate twice for every attack when defending? If that be the case, wouldn't it make knights a bit too strong?
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beside the speed, initiative and unlimited retal, i dont see how scary can griffin be. they are low hp, low def, easily die on battlefield.
if you talking on unlimited retal and killing machine, modern golem is even better than griffin | | but wizards don't have access to concentration talent so no retal creatures can safely attack them | | neither do dark elves we dun even haf defense category | | same for wizards no defence catagory, but we seem to have every magic category appart from darkness | | knight can't get it at lvl 10. |
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