| Author | [Discuss] DE Faction Skill |
|---|
yes, i agree on the current DE faction skill: magic pierce is quite lame as it only work on those units with magic resist.
after i think a long time, i come out with a solution to replace the current DE skill faction.
IMO, the DE faction skill can swap with elemental call. the damage will increased by the factor 10% +(8 * N)% ;where the current faction skill will go to talent and work with the same current formula.
of course, this idea will push DE go to spell harder. it wont harm the wizard 200% dmg advantage in hunt as DE will need to pay more mana to cast the enchanted spell.
so, everyone can give the comment on this before i suggest it in Idea and Suggestion Forum Section ? Please no flaming, no offending, no out of topic and faction bashing. |
| cool, good idea! pang, make it happen :-) |
Remove Magic Pierce as DE's default Faction skill is good idea. Elemental call is more useful.
Magic pierce is more situational, we might put it in talent wheel and people can choose it if they want to. |
| nice but i think so hard to chage fraction skill coz if admin change that, admin must change a total of DE power and make research about DE power again to keep still balance. coz if they invest more benefit /power in fraction skill that mean admin must make less power in other side to make DE power balance and not overpowered. That very difficult to do it. |
| HanHan: I think right now magic build of dark elf is weak. The might build is much better. I think this will make magic build balanced. And won't affect the might build so there might not be a need to make changes for fear of DE becoming overpowered. |
| good thought. i support it. now if only the developers actually listen to these ideas and suggestions. |
4.
i dont know the actual coding part here. but, based on OO-based coding, i dont think it will too hard to change. of course, it will have some difficult and take some time to do so :)
5.
yup, balance on might and magic. well, if this apply to DE, it will be another faction beside demon which can be have potential to be more deadly later on.
but the downsize might be the reduce player overall on DE as it will hard to start with just like demon.
the current faction can be balance on both might and magic was demon. wiz is more on magic; while the rest is more on might :) |
for Pang:
I think this is a great idea. You should put this in ideas and suggestions soon.
for xinhua:
The developers are starting to listen to ideas. They just added a mission with demons for the MG, which is one of the latest suggestions. |
5
i said admin have been tryed the best to make all fraction balance.
Im not only talk about Magic only, im talk in total DE power like Fraction skill, magic, might, creature, ability creature, etc.
7
i think not in coding the prob, the main prob is admin must do research and change all about DE power (overall) to keep balance.
Exp: We said all fraction got score 100
if we give more power in magic that mean score more than 100 (condition become not balance anymore for other fraction) so admin must make minus power in other side to keep score 100, right? that the prob, admin must chage all. |
Exp: We said all fraction got score 100
if we give more power in magic that mean score more than 100 (condition become not balance anymore for other fraction) so admin must make minus power in other side to keep score 100, right? that the prob, admin must chage all.
right now putting all stats into might (att & def) makes a DE a score of 100 that is its balanced. Adding this faction skill won't make it stronger because they won't have any spell power and knowledge so they won't be casting many damage spells and thus a few % increase in damage won't increase score any more than say 105 at most...
But putting stats into magic (knowledge & SP) makes a DE a score of 80 that is to say it is weaker than other factions even though DE is supposed to be a magic faction. This faction skill makes the damage more worthwile thus making it closer to 95. and thus being closer to being even with other races as a magic build (which is how the DE is designed to be played, look at special skill increase magic damage in center of wheel, special to ignore magic resistance).
Look at tournament results almost all DE that did well like Levy used might build, and almost everyone that used magic build is much lower ranked. |
right now putting all stats into might (att & def) makes a DE a score of 100 that is its balanced like you said it is balanced, so why to make this is become not balance even just a litle or more?
Admin make all fraction have change too make balance
and if we putting wrong stats that our fault.
exp: elf/knight player putting stats into magic (knowledge & SP) makes a elf/knight score less than 100 and become weak than other fraction, and then elf/knight player compain, elf/knight is weak. who is wrong in here? admin or elf/knight player? |
exp: elf/knight player putting stats into magic (knowledge & SP) makes a elf/knight score less than 100 and become weak than other fraction, and then elf/knight player compain, elf/knight is weak. who is wrong in here? admin or elf/knight player?
Umm DE are supposed to be a magic race, not a might race. So they should put most stats into magic and not might. While elf/knight are might race and should put more stats into might not magic. FYI wizard/DE/necro are magic races and knight/elf/barbarian are might races.
level 8 might build - (full attack) 8 att - 40% extra damage avg for creatures
in this case score still 100 as no mana = no spell = no special.
level 8 might build - 6 attack 1 spell 1 knowledge - magic arrow does 32 damage 4sp, so for level 7 faction skill that would be 66% increase which is 53 damage for 8sp and can only cast once. much better to cast twice regular spell which is what player would do without using this skill. so using skill damage 53 first round damage vs 39 damage first round with iceclod and 32 damage second round for 71 total damage for not using skill. so score still 100 or less?
So by saying 105 i was being generous as there can be a build in between might and magic evenly distributed that could help. IF there was no double mana cost then yes this could get unbalanced but with double mana cost I don't think this will be a problem. especially since as you level up might DE can't keep up. Might DE is only good early because of rogues but will stop being strong at later levels. |
Like you said before:
right now putting all stats into might (att & def) makes a DE a score of 100 that is its balanced
so why to make this is become not balance even just a litle or more? saying 105 or event 101? for what make become unbalance?
Ah DE not pure magic fraction, DE is fraction might + magic.
and until now i still cant found good reason for change fraction skill coz like you said DE now have been balanced. |
Ah DE not pure magic fraction, DE is fraction might + magic.
exactly but right now as it stands, DE is only balanced if use all might and no magic. This will make DE balance if use might and magic. And DE all might is only balanced right now because rogues are very powerfull for level 2 and lizard riders are pretty good offensive units and will be weaker as higher tier units come into play. Once again as I posted above this won't increase the strength of a might build (and all races are not 100 right now, some races are 110 others are 90 depending on level so 105 or 101 is not unbalanced). but will only make it so that the DE's will be more might and magic. And DE's even though they are might and magic they are focused more on magic look at racial ability and special talent (both purely magic oriented), doing large damage with spells while creatures survive long enough.
The reason for faction skill change is DE need magic boost as they are might and magic faction but are only good if we use all might and no magic, if we use magic they lose strength. This means that DE right now play as might faction and not as magic and might faction which is what they are. Not to mention the current racial is near useless. |
DE all might is only balanced right now because rogues are very powerfull for level 2 and lizard riders are pretty good offensive units and will be weaker as higher tier units come into play
Dont forget DE will got higher tier creatures too, like hydra.
and like you said:
rogues are very powerfull (like you said, very...)
lizard riders are pretty good offensive units (Hmm.. pretty good..)
still want more power again? lol..
well maybe other fraction like elf need more hp, knight need more initiative, etc.. lol..
and if admin give more power in magic to DE, i will change to DE too, coz absolutly overpowered. |
I put down some numbers to show why DE warrior will not benifit from this so DE power will not increase by this change. It will help a DE mage though, who looking at tournament results is much weaker than a DE warrior. This means that adding this will make it possible for DE to play as mages without making a DE warrior overpowered, as the warrior will not be able to utilize the ability well.
How about you also do some math and show us numbers that make you think this change will make DE overpowered.
PS: look at the other posters who think it is a good idea:
Pang, spartan300, poisonouspowder, Hunago <- none of them are DE
(Hunago played a little as DE, but is a higher Elf) |
Main power of DE is might, magic only support same like elf (basicly elf and dark elf is same from elf) look at the name we have been know that "elf" lol..
Basicly DE not need powerfull magic coz DE have good creatures in attack, you can compare with creatures of wizard. they really weak if not use magic from hero but DE not, dark elf can win without magic. still not clear in here?
and finally just simple, if you think this idea is good for game balance (not only for you as dark elf player) just post it in idea and sugestion forum. but i doubt this idea will be work (maybe can work if make less power in might power of DE) |
Main power of DE is might, magic only support same like elf (basicly elf and dark elf is same from elf) look at the name we have been know that "elf" lol..
Now that is the funniest thing I have heard.. Have you played the original HOMM5 from which the stats have been copied. DE are supposed to be the most powerfull magic race in terms of destruction spells. Mages on the other hand are more all rounders knowing more spells and spamming spells but not doing massive damage. That is why they have magic piercing and elemental call. They are supposed to rain down destruction on their enimies. Look at Dark elf talent wheel sorcery, erudition, destructive, dark trees and sorcerers luck in luck tree, all of which are magic talents, and only leadership attack and luck for might. look at elf leadership, attack, defense luck are might and only light, summoning and erudition are magic. and light is support to might as it increases might stats.
So it just makes me laugh that you think DE is mainly might... when their special skills, talent wheel everything is geared towards magic. |
lol.. so funny.. this is Heroes of War and Money not HOMM5, Yes, this game like HOMM5 but not same 100%. i just talk base on here not HOMM5..^^
and admin make DE in here more powerfull in might not in magic that the fact in here. if you want complain just complain to admin, why DE here have so much might power? ask more magic but dont forget tell them to make less in might coz like you said DE playing in magic.. :p |
| Ah forgot one thing, open your Talents table and look where use the most little talent point. in might section? yes! (only cost 7 point) and compare with point for magic. Still said DE here not playing in might? :p |
