| Author | Rogue - Overpowered? |
|---|
| I bring this up considering the fact for a tier 2 mob, they seem to do WAY too much damage for their HP. a 4-7 attack on a level 2 mob easily doubles any other attacker of the level. There has to be a way to either drop their hp or damage, or health to compensate for it. |
| Why? They have exceptionally low numbers, that does compensate just fine. |
why do people never take low population counts into account when wanting to nerf DE units.
you have 17 fk that deal 2-4 damage at lvl2 with 12 hp
DE have 9 rogues that deal 5-7 damage at lvl 2 with 16 hp
stack comparison
forest keepers has total 204 hp and would deal 34-68(51 avg) damage
Rogues has total of 144 hp and would deal 45-63(54 avg) damage
3 more damage for 60 less hp if you compare total stacks, looking at it this way do you still think something need to be reduced? |
| DE are not good at range unit, therefore they need some fast and powerful unit to cover them. |
Nanbu, kk2583 I'm sorry but those are excuses. You aren't looking at the full values.
Elf dancers
level 2- 17 units
3 Attack 2 Defense 2-5 Damage
12 HP, 6 move, 11 Init
204 HP
Then lets consider this Rogue
Level 2 9 units
4 attack 2 defense 5-7 damage
16 hp, 7 move, 14 int
Strike and return.
Overall it is 204 hp to 144 hp... but it gets more interesting.
The elves won't get first strike. The Rogues, can do from 45 to 63... multiplied by 1.1 if they use the same formulas. so 49.5 to 69.3
killing from 4 to 6 of them.. but, you then add the fact that they might use a soaker versus your stack. [which having the speed advantage can be easy.]
so we end up with 128 to 144 hp, and the elves havent even got a strike on the main stack yet. 11*3.5*1.05=40.425 = 40
128-40= 84 = 6 rogues which now counter for an average of 39.6 (round to 40) damage, and get another 40 damage the next turn. 80 damage. so 6 rogues versus 64 hp of elves, 6 elves which deal 22.05 *2 then it's counter rogues. 3 rogues, 3*6*1.1=19.8 (20*2) 40 damage back 24 hp elves. 7*2 damage = 14
40-14=26
2 rogues *6=13.2=13*2=26.
Dead elves. And that's perfect elf play. Given split stacks and minor mistakes, the dark elves will slaughter the elves without getting touched half as much. |
True that Dark Elf has a big advantage over others with Rogues in Lv 1-2.
You don't stay Lv 2 forever though... At Lv 3 Elven archers can take out half of the rogues before they can even come close. |
| Silverfire, any level 2 player wishing to change game balance seriously lacks credibility. |
From my experience, DE has huge advantage towards elf in lvl 2, and it's very difficult for a lvl 2 elf or nec to beat a lvl 2 DE
But for lvl 4 elf, if you have good ini and can use ur elven bowmen to shot rogues first, then the winning chance is half-half, or maybe slightly higher for elf |
| forest keepers not elf dancers... |
Yep, seriously, rogues die quickly when you play combat lvl 3 or more, and it would be non sense to nerf them. And I precise I do not play DE. It the type of unit like elf bowmen that are always first victims in group battle.
They're a good lvl 2 unit, but a faction has to be balanced not only counting one unit... |
| silverfire: why isn't the elf in your calculations not using units to soak retaliations. and don't say it is cause speed. because first move rogues move closer to reach, then elves can move close also so after the first move (where no attack takes place) speed 6 or 7 doesn't matter because you will be around 2 or 3 spaces apart. So according to you perfect elf play doesn't use split stacks... maybe you need to try splitting of single stack FK's so they can soak up retals also. |
| Ok ive seen ppl say that rogues are over powered but are they underpowered? they have less units but the dmg they do is far more than that of any other at low lvls which makes them deadly. I think it should be kept as is...low unit recruitment but massive dmg and good range aswell |
In my last game ( level 4 battle ), 20 fk deal critical to favored enemy and kill 14 rogues in just 1 hit.
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?warid=469750240 |
at 13,
for avengersguild you need lvl 3, so lets nerf the rogues at combat lvl 2 versus forest keepers.
please do not compare units from one race with another but look at the overall balance of a race |
Mirz, and when you level up to combat lvl 3, rogues nerf would have to be annulated?
So, maybe should we nerf elven bowmen from combat lvl 3 to lvl 4... ^^
I don't understand why should every factions by exactly balanced on all lvls.
Maybe also should units of equal lvl have all the same skills and habilities. Just change the images.
They're is factions that are harder to fight for each lvl, but the balance change when you lvl up, and I think it's not a problem. |
| i dont know why every one says elvne bowmen are to strong, i never had problems wirth elves my biggest problems are Dark elves and clever necros=( |
| your orcs are ideal against elven bowmen:) If they would strike you first you would know:D |
On lvl 2 Necros dispose of DE quite easy.
You just need to get the technique of cornering the rogues with your zombies. |
#16
One word: orcs |
| U can win every battles with tactics and luck. Is there any faction who unbeatable? |
