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| Author | Early game leveling: Faster vs Better |
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Winning a hunt is like losing a PvP
Words of wisdom here. Even if you lose a PvP, you'll earn more skill points that when hunting. PvP is a much better way to improve your faction level from level 3 on than hunting.
The only "risk" of PvP for slow people here is that you may actually win..! | "The only "risk" of PvP for slow people here is that you may actually win..!"
here you can see all the absurdity of the actual system.
you must loose if you want to have a strong character at fixed level.
winning makes you weaker in fixed level 1vs1 games.
why would the loosers be awarded and the winners penalized?
it's realy a nonsense.
the source of the problem is that you only focus on one thing: the combat level.
for you, to see if you are strong or not, you compare yourself with characters having the same combat level, instead of comparing yourself with players who spent the same time than you in this game.
what does it means to be the stronger level3 or the stronger level5?
it means that you are playing from month and are able to defeat easily 3 days old players which have won xp faster than you.
and you are speaking about fair fights?
for me, a fair fight is a fight between players having spent the same time to the game, no matter if one of them have an higher level than the second one.
if you are playing from months and are very happy to defeat players here from few days, it's really pathetic.
all my exemples in precedent messages were in this way.
my slow level3 vs fast level6 is an exellent exemple. (it's at message 52)
they both spent the same time to the game, so they should have approximatively the same strenght.
but the level6 is really more powerfull than the level 3.
it means that level 6 have built a stronger character than level3 on the same ammount of time, it's the proof that your slow leveled-up characters are really weaks comparated to fast-leveled ones.
this game is a kind of HoMM like.
in HoMM, if you are on month6 and level 15, do you only attack level 15 players? of course not, if an oppent is only level 5 it doesn't matter.
if you are on month6 and level 2 only, it means that you played badly and don't won enough xp. so it's normal for you to be weaker than other players and to lose your battles.
fights are not between same levels players, they are between players having spent the same amount of time.
you will never have a fight between a level5 who is on month2 and another level5 who is on month8.
why do you want it to be different here?
you are playing from months, then fight against players here from months too, don't fight againts new players only because they have the same combat level.
when creating a challenge in duel or group battles, instead of being paired by combat level we shoud be paired by time spent on the game (measured in total games played for exemple) | | thats rubbish.. slower levelers will be more powerful in time due to skill lvl,labour lvl, and merc lvl..these all give you extra points to invest in atk,def,spell power etc.. slower leveling players but playing the game as much as faster leveling players will win eventually.. common sence | "slower leveling players but playing the game as much as faster leveling players will win eventually.. common sence"
please READ my messages before writting such absurdities. | the most i think about the last answer i had, the most i think nobody here undertand me.
i explained that: while a slow leveling player make a level n character(level 3 in my exemples), a fast leveling player makes a character with an higher level (level6 in my exemples)
he answered: "slower levelers will be more powerful in time [...]
slower leveling players but playing the game as much as faster leveling players will win eventually.. common sence"
i have 3 ways to understand his answer:
-the first one: he think that the slow level3 is stronger than the fast level6
(if it's that i would like him to show me how he defeats level6 players with a level3 one)
-the second one: he didn't read anything of my messages. (i hope it's not that because i hate people who answers to the others without reading what they wrote before)
-the third one: he reads my message, but didn't understood anything (i think it's that)
i had the same problem before (with shebali at message 53)
i just explained that fights between old players with high skills and arts and new players are unfair because the new player have no chance to win, and that i wanted duels based on time spent on the game, (not based on xp levels of players)
he answered me that i was asking for levels 5 playing for 1 week to be as strong as level 5 playing for months. i never said that!
i know he have take time to read my messages, but don't understood them.
it would help me if i had at least one message of someone who understood my messages (62 for exemple)
for now, it's like if i wrote all of that for nothing.
if you disagree with my ideas it means that:
-for you it's normal to consider "fair" a fight between an old player with high skills level and hunt guild level and a new player.
-for you it's normal that loosing battles make you have a stronger character than winning battles
i really don't see how it is possible to disagree with me.
maybe, someone can explain me why nobody here seems to share my ideas?
this game has really a great potential, but i think the actual duels and group battles system looking only on the xp levels of the characters is really bad and need to be improved. | Words of wisdom here. Even if you lose a PvP, you'll earn more skill points that when hunting. PvP is a much better way to improve your faction level from level 3 on than hunting.
yes though remember that we also want hunter guild points (and i think we r talkin about be4 level 3) | @Karsot
The problem with your suggestion, that battles should be between players who played the same time (same time online? or since they created their account) creates it's own problems.
If it would be handled as you suggest, then there would be no better way than gaining exp as fast as possible (so you'd be the strongest in your time), but if i do one group battle after another then there would be not time for hunts or mercenary quests. Also i must spend all my time with battles not wasting precious time on the market or in the forum cause every moment i do not fight, i become weaker.
This goes so far, that classes who needs lots of mana like nec or wizard will get the greasy end of the stick in so far as they need 30 min to recover mana, before entering the next battle (even if they won and have most troops ready), while a elf, DE (might), knight or barbarian can do battles every 15 min.
So plainly since the developers wanted the players to do a variety of things and not only battle after battle, the fairest match condition is that players of same lvl fight each other. | My opinion on this subject:
The point of “levelling slow” is to exploit the 15min respawn time of hunts. Consider this
Main objective of this game:
1) Max Out All Faction Levels (all lvl 9)
2) Max out combat level (lvl 13)
3) Max Out HG Lvl
4) Max Out all Other guild levels
5) To have FUN (?)
By achieving all this, you would have the “perfect account”. Do we have an agreement on this?
For the purpose of my argument, I will only focus on the first 3 objectives since they require the most amount of time (they are all restricted by the fact that you need to rest 15 minutes before you can do another battle).
You have 2 ways of achieving this, by lvling fast or by lvling slow.
By leveling fast, you aim to get to combat lvl13 as fast as possible, while getting HG and Faction points at a normal rate (meaning no emphasis on HG and Skill pts).
So, assuming you are at level 3 already, your hunts frequency would drop to once per hour. Thus, you HG and your Faction Pts would increase at a slower rate. So, when you are lvl 13, your HG wont even be near maximum. You would only be able to succeed to max out ONE faction. So now, to max out other factions you would need to rely on levelling through MQ and Hunts (PvP would be difficult since your faction lvl is low)
This is the dillemma slow levelers want to avoid.
By levelling slow, they get to exploit the abundance of hunts to boost their factions early so they don’t need to suffer later by levelling other factions from scratch.
So, in essence, a “slow” leveller is able to “max out” their account faster as compared to “fast levellers”
Ironic huh? | oh, someone who understand me :)
i can see what problems you are fearing.
but these problems are false ones:
first: when i said "same time" it means same time on the game, not same time since account created.
this way, someone here from 2 month and playings 2 games per week shouldn't fight against someone here from 2 month too but playing 10 games per day.
"Also i must spend all my time with battles not wasting precious time on the market or in the forum cause every moment i do not fight, i become weaker."
this is a false problem too: it would be a real one if we had a system based on real time (measured in hours).
but here, i suggest to have a system based on number of played games, not on number of hours connected to the game.
if you do the same ammount of battles than an other player, you fight in the same category. no matter if one of you is connected 24/24 hours and the other one only 10 min per day.
this way, you can spent the time you want to forum, your character will not become weaker.
the problem with classes using mana is solved the same way.
the last problem remaining with my suggestion: hunting don't give enough xp, so players will not hunt in order to have a better level than others with same ammount of battles (and maybe it's same thing for mercenary quests, i don't know anything about these quest so i can't know how much xp you win by doing it)
i know that my system is not perfect for now, but i'm sure there is an easy way to balance it.
for exemple we could have something like it: hunt battles count as 1 point, duel counts has 2 points, group battles as 3 points. and players with same amount of points fights in same category.
this way hunting still gives you a few less xp than battles, but it gives you gold, and a better hunt and skill level to counter-balance.
for exemple it would give us fights between levels 3 with 2 in hunter guild and 3 in racial skill and levels 4 with 0 in hunter guild and 2 in racial skills.
i think it would be fair.
anyway, the game need a better battle system than the actual one:
1:old players agains newbies
2:you want as less xp as possible
3:loosing battles makes you stronger than winning battles (in consequence of 2)
it's not the idea i have of a balanced system. | | :/ am at lvl 4 now with 2 lvl DE faction skill :( | | i this 1 possible adjustment they should make is making xp depend on faction. So if you gained combat 5 as a knight and then switch to wizard you would be combat 1 again instead of a combat 5 with faction lvl 1. I think it would make the game a lot more enjoyable in the long run. For course if you switch back to knight you will be combat 5 again. | for Jafia:
it's good idea,but it's almost impossible to realize and takes enermous time | I think the system is fine as it is. This is how I see it (assuming that you do nothing but PvP battles):
If you win, you gain more XP than losing while gaining about the same FP(faction point) when losing(I think). As you keep winning, the gap between your faction level and combat level increases, making you "weaker" for your combat level. At this point you start losing more, making you gain more FP than XP, thus reducing the gap between combat level. Once the gap gets smaller, you begin to get stronger again for your combat level, making you win more. This should go on until your character gets to that balanced point where your FP is about "right" for your combat level. Thus in the end everything works out as it should. More battles still makes your character stronger whether you win or lose. | karsot..if you didn't write really long boring paragraphs of meaning less rubbish then i would read it all.. you did it again after i wrote the common sence thing...
lvl 3 players won't go in a challenge with lvl 6 players, unless they are ready to lose, as it is a lvl 3 player that has taken his time just gaining faction points and skill points will be tougher than those who just blitz the game gaining only xp...
i say again common sence.. and you happen to have none | | The solution could be in getting bonus "battle points" for pvp wins + statistics and rewards for pvp palyers. Those points could give some special abilities or just simply converted to gold/huting points/whatever. That would make the game more pvp-orientied. | [Post deleted by moderator FaithBringer // spam]
[Player banned by moderator FaithBringer until 2008-09-28 00:45:17 // spam] | | it would be hard to find someone with same number of points as you karsot | same number approximatively.
of course if you have 148 pts you can fight someone with 146... |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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