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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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#440 - for DEATHisNEAR: - I do not really understand why your post was for me? You do not cover any of the points I made in my posts in your answer.
You are right though. This thread is to post about any moderators who abuse their positions.
Maybe you could post some examples which actually show such an abuse though rather than links to people being banned for breaking the rules which is what the moderators are meant to do???
If you wish to then maybe you could post some relevant links and/or also explain who was threatening you? If you are implying that Dan-Panic or I threatened you than I cannot see how you came to this conclusion?? Similarly I cannot see Queen_Amanda making any threats either, her post looks to me just to be asking for facts about your claims of abuse from her which I guess is fair enough as the thread was created by Arctic to cover facts and not just accusations.
Hopefully you will feel inclined to help me understand your post better by making what you are saying (or asking) clearer? Currently I am very confused. | | I understand how you want to cover your clan mates, but I gave links, as well as the reasons I gave them. | DEATHisNEAR
That is abuse of his/her powers, the rules for the forum say pretty clearly that you have the right to speak you mind, without getting blocked, then really even if the guy did not have the right to say he dislike Queen amanda, how can she give a guy 8 weeks ban from the forum ?.. serious I have seen people who have broken the rules far worse, and got 1-4 days ban..
So she does abuse her positions..
4.5. Foul language with regard to an administrator, moderator or any other project staff can be punished by banning for 1 month up to blocking the violator's character.
All he says is he dislike her as a mod. notning else, and yet without a warning or telling the guy not to write things like that, he get not 1 but 2 month ban, and is not really a foul language about a moderator, but just a point of view.
Also in this case where is her the guy talk about, it shuold be a other moderator who goes in and jugde if someone should be banned and for how long. not the person who get provoked as she say he did/does. no way can anyone who feels someone is talking bad of his/her position go in and put a banned herself, because if u use that kind of rules, all u have is a dictatorship.
Pang who also is a Forum moderators, did not ban the person, but moved his post to the right place, and then she ban him... so 1 moderator dont think is a problem what he said, other then is belong in Complaints and applications - Finance and others". that also shows she relax very bad to complaints about her person?.
"Dear players! Our forum holds a relative freedom of speech. However, remember, that the comfort of most players is our priority, so please be patient to each other and do not spoil the fun of the community" | I have noticed the same mistake today. And its not the first of its kind. "Provoking", "Being mentally challanged", etc. are not rule breaks.
Yes its quite boring to quote the same few rules over and over but its probably best to just swallow your pride and write "excessive flood, false accusations, wrong section" = bang, 2 months BAN, no discussion around it.
Quoting a rule broken instead of bathing in one`s own self-respect is important if we want impartial, fair and mature mods. | | relax = react..cant edit my own post... | hunter_dk, these three would fit: "excessive flood, false accusations, wrong section" It wasnt his first forum attack of this kind.
It is probably best to let other mods step in to help solve such cases. | Response to Post # 438
now that you have been corrupted.
So this isn't an insult in your opinion? Then I could, hypothetically, claim that other past moderators acted in a corrupt fashion and I could expect no punishment?
I could claim that these hypothetical ex-mods corruption knew no bounds, but that wouldn't be an insult either? What *could* I say that is a worse insult than this, before I get penalised?
Claims of corruption in an official are generally one of the most negative things that can happen while in office. Just have a quick glance at the dictionary definition of the word "corruption". Most definitions present aren't in any way complimentary.
Regarding the thread about displeasing the Queen perhaps Moderator Pang, rather than moving a thread to the wrong place, could have correctly quoted Forum Rule 1.5 (one of your favorites when you were a Mod Kotrin, surely you remember this rule?) and closed the thread? Notice the timestamp of Pang's action predated Queen_Amandas action. Or is Pang incapable of recognising a Forum Rule 1.5 situation anymore? Perhaps he should have directed the author to this thread?
Moderator Pang has inappropriately moved several threads like this in the recent past. Perhaps he has an agenda of some sort? Maybe he should be doing his job properly rather than playing silly games?
Threads like this - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1880932
And this - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1879693.
Really, moving a thread from Gratitudes and Congratulations to General Game Forum without checking with the thread creator first is highly innappropriate (see the comment by h4nd in post # 22).
As it happens, I think Queen_Amanda should have asked another Moderator to look at that thread. However, if the thread you reference had been handled properly by the first moderator to come across it (Pang), then there wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
Grunge | 447>
oh, so let me explain little on the 2 threads you gave.
the 1st CaA topic shouldnt go to CaA - TaB sub forum, even you are complaining someone scam on you, he should post on CaA - FaO. that's the correct place to complain.
although we know copy and paste PM doesnt make sense on forum, but i have to let him know it isnt a correct place to complain. it also leave a reference for juries or admins in future when facing similar/same name on rule-breakers.
and your 2nd GaC topic, i agree that it SUPPOSE a GaC topic. but, too much off topic in the thread. i could delete all off topic replies, but it will become pointless. delete entire topic? no point. so, i just move it to GGF after PM and explain with h4nd.
443>
Pang who also is a Forum moderators, did not ban the person, but moved his post to the right place, and then she ban him...
well, it is all about patient and tolerances. i dont mind other post something like 'i dont like Pang as mod, can admin sack him out of mod position?' on forum. IMO, it can be tolerated.
but, the question is: how far a mod can tolerant?
take the case we had, perhaps Queen think that player is having offensive and insult. it was like someone stand in front your face and scold you on public. | Regarding https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1880932. Pang, as you should well know, Local Rule 2 of the CaA FaO Forum clearly sets out what should be done when someone receives what they perceive as an insult via PM. As a Moderator you should be well aware of this.
2. Insults via Private mail should be resend to the Secretary. To resend the letter containing insults - click on 'Reply' button and change the name of the receiver to Secretary.
Regarding https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1880948. Pang, as I am sure you are well aware, Forum Rule 1.5 is still in force everywhere except in this topic. So the topic regarding Queen_Amanda should have been closed, rather than moved to the other CaA forum. Perhaps with a PM to the author directing him to this thread if he wished to make a complaint?
Regarding https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1879693. Yes, deleting the off-topic replies is *exactly* what should have been done. That's why I requested a Moderator to delete my posts. Although I included a "Congrats", other parts of my posts were off-topic. Obviously the topic starter also thought that it belonged in G&C (see his post # 22). So if you did indeed consult the topic starter as to his wishes in this matter you certainly didn't take any notice of what he thought the correct action was. Or are you permitted, as a Moderator, to do anything to any topic created without regard for the intent of the original Topic author. Certainly there are topics where this may be the case, particularly those involving flaming, insults, etc. But if a Topic author creates a thread in G&C and believes it should be in G&C, surely it should remain in G&C with off-topic posts appropriately moderated (as long as the thread stays within the bounds of all Forum and Local Rules).
Grunge | 449>
agree, but i doesnt mean i have to deal with it immediately. i was doing my keeper job at that moment.
so, i just move it to correct sub forum while doing my job. i can deal with that later, but i should have just move it first. i will take care it if other mods didnt found it and deal with the case.
But if a Topic author creates a thread in G&C and believes it should be in G&C
are you sure on that? we got countless example on this, such as QaH topic in GGF, OFG topic in GGF, Technical Support topic in GGF and many more. we have too much players post on wrong forum.
yet, i do inform h4nd about his topic. the entire topic were turn into discussion, delete all those off topic will simply kill the entire topic. so, i decide to move it to GGF as discussion topic. but, he decide to lock it and that's his choice. | Im amazed on how people that were complaining about 'Secretary' earlier in this post, now tries to use it to defend some case about a clanmate and also earlier in this topic as well complaining about deleted post, now asked for post to be deleted.
I really wonder if some people just use rules as they see fit for their own benefits. *sigh*
It might be me, I might just be imagining things here. | Yes, you "informed him" about his topic. You certainly don't appear to have asked his opinion.
And BTW, IMO the correct moderation should be: mods erase all the "off topic" posts and give them warning. Not by moving the topic to General Game forum :((
He doesn't appear to appreciate having the original intent of his thread subverted. It appears that Mods can essentially decide to delete any posts they want. They just move the topic to a Forum where the posts they don't like are regarded as off-topic (CaA personal opinion for example), then they can simply remove the content they don't like. Apparently they don't have to give any consideration to the original intent of the thread. You have surely set a dangerous precedent here Pang.
And since when do the topic respondents receive priority treatment over the person that created the topic. As h4nd noted, if they wanted to dicuss that subject, they were free to create their own topic. If you want to have a debate or discussion, please CREATE your own topic. That is the right and polite way to do.
I agree that there are countless examples in QaH, GGF and many other Forums branches. However you forgot to quote an important part of my sentence.
But if a Topic author creates a thread in G&C and believes it should be in G&C, surely it should remain in G&C with off-topic posts appropriately moderated (as long as the thread stays within the bounds of all Forum and Local Rules).
Since there wasn't anything wrong with the h4nd's thread, why should it be moved without his agreement. Sure if it was in the wrong place, but it wasn't was it? It was in exactly the right place. Or can we expect our forum topics to be bumped into far flung threads simply because other players have seen fit to hijack them? Why were other players discussions given preference over the Topic starter, through no fault of his own? Did h4nd do something wrong? If not *why* was the thread moved? Other players hijacked the thread and their posts should have been given short warning bans to remind them to stay on topic. Instead a Mod hijacks the entire thread and moves it somewhere it was never meant to be. If you'd like I have no doubt I can find several threads where many off-topic posts were deleted/banned instead of the topic being moved without regard for the intent of the Topic starter.
Grunge | Okay so you were doing your Keeper job at that moment. How does it take less effort to move the threads to the wrong place rather than close them with a direction as to the correct course of action?
Or when acting in your role as a Keeper do you suddenly forget everything you know about being a Moderator? Surely the two are not incompatible? Why can't you act in such a way as to satisfy both "hats"?
Respose to Dan-Panic (post # 451). Earlier I was talking about situations where there was no other recourse. Now that this thread exists, other recourse is available. As I mentioned above, in the case of the Queen_Amanda thread, perhaps Pang should have brought the attention of the Topic starter to this thread, which exists for precisely the purpose of reporting inapproriate Mod activity. Just because he did not, doesn't mean it wasn't an available option.
Regarding insults sent by PM. Unfortunately, because only the Admins have the ability to read a PM in it's original form and guarantee it remains unaltered, only they can realistically resolve cases regarding PM insults. I would be more than happy for others to be given the capacity to do so, but currently the only way it can be handled is by the Admins. What would you like me to do about that situation? You can't imagine it's in my power to do something about this? Do you have a suggestion about how else it could be handled? At least the previous situations *could* have been handled by discussions on both sides. Unfortunately in those cases the people with the ability to "Mute" other players simply chose to employ this capacity rather than trying to find a mutually agreeable solution. The only thing I could suggest in this case is that Limustudotcom and superbober discuss it 'til they come to a satisfactory agreement. Unless someone wants to contact Arctic to create a thread for PM insult dispute resolution?
Grunge | Grunge, I dont care if now you think otherwise then before, the fact that you use the Secretary option now and you were complaining about it earlier in April is just showing how well someone can use rule to his own benefits :)
I hope one day we will have honest players that can see the rules as they are : The same for every situation and stop complaining when it doesnt benefits them or someone that they like and use them against some situations where it helps someone they like.
Thats my 2 cents. :) | Actually I think pretty much the same now as I did before. You are simply seeking to make it appear that my current words conflict with my previous statements, which they do not.
In fact I pointed out in post # 449 where Pang could have brought the attention of player "cooum" to this thread. You just chose to ignore this.Perhaps with a PM to the author directing him to this thread if he wished to make a complaint?.
This is very different from the situation as it used to exist, where the only realistically available option was PMing secretary, as the Mods in question had chosen not to allow the players involved to discuss the matter, even in threads with the express purpose of discussing the rules. Importantly you will notice that Queen_Amanda did not simply delete all posts regarding the alleged wrong-doing of the Moderator or the entire thread for that matter, a method which was commonly employed in the past when someone complained about a Moderators actions. You did notice that difference, right?
Unfortunately the situation regarding insults via PM, remains the same as before. I would prefer that it was not this way. However the Admins have chosen to make this the only currently available recourse regarding PMed insults. I ask again, what would you expect me to do about it? I am not Arctic or any other member of the administration. I cannot *make* something happen simply because I want it to be so. I can only make suggestions that things should be different where I see problems arising from the current state of affairs. Perhaps you can do something about this situation? If so, please do so.
I'm sure you believe that you are "scoring points" against me Dan-panic, by the simple expedient of steadfastly ignoring what I am actually saying (rather like Kotrin's past efforts really). However, I have confidence the Admins won't be duped by your rather simple efforts at misdirection. I must say that Kotrin did a better job of trying to obfuscate the subject than you appear to be doing.
Grunge | I am still against the Secretary option...since it doesn't really do anything as far as I've ever seen. In REAL problematic cases, it is a shame that nothing happens. But because of a bunch of pranksters...I am certain the Secretary inbox gets flooded daily by BS. How can any one person keep up with all that? Further, staying on topic, I think Pang doesn't abuse his powers--but rather, does choose when to properly use them.
He completely mishandled a thread that should of been closed, and instead he moved it lol. Grunge made a reference to it above. Is it really so hard for Mods to be neutral and enforce the rules fairly? Jeeze. The Admins really need to hire more mods, and just get rid of the ones that have a history of mishandling topics...mods are not hard to come by. There are tons of qualified people on this server willing to fill the void. Give them the job. | [Pang] completely mishandled a thread that should of been closed, and instead he moved it lol. Grunge made a reference to it above. Is it really so hard for Mods to be neutral and enforce the rules fairly? (...)
Apparently some actions don't quite stir up the same reactions if the mod under scrutiny is part of a certain clan.
Pang moving a thread, wohoooo, how dare he!! To be put in perspective with an unwarranted TWO MONTHS ban from Queen_Amanda.
Just my 0.02. | Pang moving a thread, wohoooo, how dare he!! To be put in perspective with an unwarranted TWO MONTHS ban from Queen_Amanda.
This is epic win. | | Same clanmates who would happily throw a rock, now stand in defense against same actions that caused the fuzz few weeks/months ago. All mods should have such clanmates... | Thanks Omega22 and Kotrin for standing in with what I was trying to bring in.
Like Grunge did say, you guys do better job then me at showing to everyone how faulty they are at using rules at their own benefits or benefits of clanmates ! lol
Grunge, no offense taken in your comments, its not that I dont like you, I just dont care about you, its the fact that you simply and completly show your 'true color' (to use Queen Amanda's words) in this situation. It is actually quite funny to see that you need to resort to some 'insulting' way to compare me to Kotrin and tries to 'understand' my intentions, quite wrongly seen by you, when I say that : Earlier your opinion was different then now cause the situation was different as well.
See : The rules have stayed the exact same, it is only your interpretations of them that have changed and that shouldnt exist, thats being biased. I dont blame you at all, you are just proving that you are a human :)
*Still wonder when this game is going to have honest players, armed with common sense and fairness* |
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