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| Author | Discussion: The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law. |
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#40
Would it not be better to have some guidelines for decision-making. A case-by-case basis will lead to subjectivity in decision making. We don't want another Kusika case problem, don't we? | "trying your best" in gameplay alone is not enough to say that a battle isn't staged or a giveaway.
But I believe going unprepared to battle is not enough to prove battle is staged or giveaway. Or else we could penalise low faction level, minimum arts, forgetting to change talents, taking wrong unit type, etc.. | But I believe going unprepared to battle is not enough to prove battle is staged or giveaway.
True enough, which is why Kotrin points out that such things are subject to case-by-case ruling in certain situations. | for Tetzeal:
As it is mentioned already – neutrals just repeat the phrases said earlier by the players themselves.
And yes, there is a way to get rid of that. Nothing’s impossible, remember? =) One of possible solutions – report those neutral swearing worth deleting (also provide a battlechat-link) to Secretary. Just keep in mind that there are issues of higher priority than teaching neutrals manners as soon as report is received. A regular ‘purge’ (when enough reports accumulated) is more likely.
The Mercenaries’ Guildmaster’s ranting is another story, though quite similar. The only difference is – the text was not ‘provided’ by players, but by one person (guess who?). Maybe a discussion is needed, what’s wrong with Merc Guild and whether something is really unsuitable or not?
Anyway, please forgive the NPCs and their blissed ignorance, they don’t mean any harm. Can’t say the same for players who swear, though.
And by the way, the place is truly clean not when it’s being kept clean, but when it’s not being littered =)
for Erekose:
Thanks for feedback and for telling all that statements just so players understand what is legal and what not. Yes, all those four cases are true, in situations you described. It depends.
Look. From https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=5 Please note that these rules weren't created to limit the game process. On the contrary, they were created to improve the game and to provide every player with a chance to win.
It is impossible to predict all consequences and write every single rule which will cover all the situations possible here in LWM. Even if that would be possible – who would read a 34 volume “Book of Rules. Part I: General rules”?
Current rules are, in general, sufficient already. Everything else – are just details and additional definitions of same subject. And there will never be enough definitions, explanations and such =) | For example, 3.10. It is allowed to create additional characters to familiarize yourself with features of other factions. Additional character must be completely independent; remember, that multichars created for financial profiting of the main character in any way are blocked without hesitation. One player may have up to 3 characters (one main and two extras).
Seems like a complete rule settling the "main char – add.char – multichar" issue. You are supposed to have one main character in this game, completely independent. And you can create up to 2 additional characters to have a look at other factions ("how do they forge their mini-artifacts, I wonder?"). Once an additional character is used for other purposes, i.e. usually for profiting the main one, in ways both obvious or not – it becomes a multichar, which is bad.
But no, there will always be such people who will try to look for loopholes, find faults with every word in rule, etc. – either for getting advantage by any means, or pleasing vanity, or whatever. Thus came the rules #3.11., 3.12., 3.13., 3.13.1. and so on…
General rule of thumb is – don’t behave like a.. rule-breaker/multichar/etc. and you won't be treated as such.
If you've done something unintentionally and wasn't aware it was forbidden – don't be afraid of 1-gold warning. It's not the end of the world, or 'your character is doomed' =) Just consider this warning and try not to do the same next time.
If you are unsure of something, whether it's right or wrong – just ask, and we’ll come to a conclusion in time.
So when a person treats the rules as.. an outline, or maybe guideline of some sorts – it becomes much more pleasant, easy, comfortable for him/her to play. Afterall, you've come here to play and have a good time, don't you? Otherwise, if you have decided to 'fight the system', find and/or use loopholes in rules ("Hope they won't notice me"), etc. – don’t be surprised to eventually find your character banned/fined/blocked/ip-blocked. Just my opinion. | for Modi, Takesister, Kotrin:
If a separate forum section for a specified playground/sandbox so they will leave the adults alone to have a proper discussion is possible, I'd gladly vote for its implementation too. Until then we have to tolerate these flood/bump threads in OGF, I'm afraid.
for Kotrin:
I don't think this idea is the kind of thing cepruyc had in mind when opening the thread.
What did I have in mind when opening this thread? No, seriously, I'm not kidding, it's not an offense – I just really want to know what [do you think] I thought of when creating this thread? =)
Back to subject started in post #45
What is considered 'giveaway combats'? A combat where you intentionally (help to) pump opponent's attributes up. Be it xp, fsp, TG-points, Smiths' Guild points (oops, not combat related =), Gamblers' Guild (again), etc.
In general, it is supposed that every player (one main character for each, remember?) should play on his/her own and independently in terms of character development. I.e. without any 'financial assists' and such. (Let's put clans-issue aside for a while and discuss them later). Hope you understand. | for binghuo:
Again, it depends. Every good intention can be warped beyond recognition. Rule explanations and saying "something is legal" are not an exception.
Example 4: You want an 'all-blue' card game? Or 'Let's make the highest wall'? Why not, try it if you want. … It is the 126th card match already where your friend constantly discarding and you win. What, he just has no blue cards? Ah-ha, very convincing.. [pumping Gamblers' Guild]
Example 3: An Elf with bowmen and druids vs DE with shrews and bandits. What, "we want to know who’s better in melee: bowmen or bandits"? Oh, sure, as if 34 previous such battles weren't enough of course. [pumping xp/fsp for DE]
And so on. Examples you provided are not illegal. But everything's good within limits. There'll be those who abuse this and say "Hey, but you told binghuo that it's legal! You can't ban me!" Experimenting, having fun, testing – is fine. Abusing and covering it up with "We're just testing" or "We're friends in RL" is not. So let common sense guide you, and if unsure – see post #45 =)
And, as Kotrin has said, every battle/application is (and should be) considered individually, on a per-case basis. | #46
The separate forum section you speak of should be called Flood of Bumps. And it should contain strictly well...bumps and floods. There could also be little contest things like in "who's the cleverest of them all" or more or less pointless ones such as "draw of prizes (again)." I think this would be nice.
Modi:
How can one flood thread bumps your page off in only minutes? It is only one thread after all, and the front page contains what...20? threads? It may bump your thread from #1, but it won't bump you from the first page...Don't go blaming everything on a single thread. | How can one flood thread bumps your page off in only minutes? It is only one thread after all, and the front page contains what...20? threads? It may bump your thread from #1, but it won't bump you from the first page...Don't go blaming everything on a single thread.
Uh, it bumps it off the main page, just like the clan bumps pushed clans to the front page for advertising purposes.
Don't go blaming everything on a single thread
I think the mods handled my question so your two cents can be placed right back in your pocket. Thanks for playing. | Discussion: The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law.
This post is an accusation of improperness in the hiring system. These newest chat room moderators(no offense to you personally) all have connections in some way to the current mod group. I raised this issue before but was told to complain to Empire. Now that this thread is available for us I do not expect to be shut down as my argument is valid. It is high time those not listed as family members or in the clans Haven for Angels or WG get a chance to contribute and be on the team. Here I attacked this same problem and nothing was done. Now it worsens and it either stops or the game is corrupt and has a bleak future.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1860670
"[10/21/2009 4:56:15 PM] Modi: "It is uncomfortable seeing many of the mods listed as family members of other mods. This creates the appearance of us vs. them. I am not the only player who feels this way before this is brushed aside with a wave of the hand."
In my next post I will list the big picture for all to see about the relationships of the moderation team to each other. I accuse the hiring system of blatant cronyism. Now it will be told to us that Pang was in charge and I am sure he was but I am also sure the current mods had a huge influence over his choices. I want to know who applied and was passed over? I know that DEATHisNEAR applied and got no reply or contact from Pang. He is in the inquiry room quite often. He was passed over while Erebes was hired.
Death has twice as much experience as Erebes as we see here:
07-19-09 19:32: Registered. Faction: Dark elf. Zyanya aunt <<<EREBES
03-04-09 00:20: Registered. Faction: Necromancer. <<<DEATHisNEAR
The big difference is that Erebes has Zyanya listed as his aunt. This is not a coincidence. Are we going to allow a small group of friends to control our forums and chat rooms and not go outside their circle to hire new faces? I am sure these new guys are all nice but that isn't the point. Also, why would someone be chosen as a mod who has been twice penalized for cheating? One would think that the mods should have spotless records and be an example to the rest of the server, no? If you applied for the chat mod job, please post here so we can get an idea who was passed over and why? For now I only know DEATHisNEAR was passed over for a relative rookie player. I think that stinks. | Here is a list of mods with connections to each other. Why is this allowed to happen? The current mods are already set for a while now but the new hires are not. I want another application process to take place and for some outside players to be given a chance. Now is someone going to tell me we don't have a cronyism problem after reading the list below?
[2:04:55 PM] Modi: Common relationships of mods:
Arctic>>>#145 Warriors' Guild
#201 haven for angel's
Pang>>>#201 haven for angel's
Xeno>>>#201 haven for angel's
Skunder>>>#201 haven for angel's>>>Zyanya (sister)
Zyanya>>>#145 Warriors' Guild/#201 haven for angel's>>>Takesister (mom),/Decrous (son)/misself (daughter),/Skunder(brother)/ Dan-Panic (brother)/Erebes (nephew)
QueenAmanda>>> #145 Warriors' Guild
#201 haven for angel's
ipslne >>>#145 Warriors' Guild
cepruyc >>>> #201 haven for angel's
misself >>> #201 haven for angel's>>> Zyanya (mom)
Xeno>>>#201 haven for angel's
Dan-Panic >>>#145 Warriors' Guild/#201 haven for angel's>>>Takesister (mom)/Zyanya (sister),
Erebes>>>Zyanya (aunt)
FaithBringer>>>#145 Warriors' Guild
Takesister>>>#145 Warriors' Guild/#201 haven for angel's>>>Dan-Panic (son), Zyanya (daughter)
Straws >>> #145 Warriors' Guild
EROCS>>>#145 Warriors' Guild
Pantheon>>>#145 Warriors' Guild
Decrous>>>Zyanya (mom) | | Decrous <<< #145 Warriors' Guild/#201 haven for angel's / Family: Zyanya (mom), | yes it does seem ther hass been some kind of favoritism going on hear as it simply defies the laws of chance thats all these ppl could randomly be selected as the best ppl for the job....
and they are all in the same two clans and all obviosly in game friensds, or relitives....
i think some more inpartial members should be chosen with assosiation with the other clans and comunity groups contained in within this game so that it is fair for everyone....
ALSO i think any one thats has been caught cheating should be imeadiatly disqualified as these ppl that have been cheating cant be trusted to make the right desicions with fairness for everyone or they wouldnt have cheated in the first place. | I brought up the "exclusive" nature of this group a long time ago--but it fell on deaf ears. I am all in favor of spreading out the jobs to all sorts of qualified folks that have as LITTLE to do with the current Mods as possible.
Mostly because I don't believe in dynasties, or 'closed circles.' This existing group of mods (I am sure most are great people) continues to recycle the same strengths--and weaknesses--into the game. We need new strengths...and new weaknesses...so that there is more harmony...more balance, etc.
Cheers,
LS | It has been brought to my attention that a second new hire was previously blocked for cheating. This can be seen here. So while Erebes is not a new player and knows the game, he has a spotted past. There is redemption in this game for players who do wrong and that is good but I think this should disqualify them from holding mod posts. Why should they be on Empire payroll after they broke the rules like this. Being blocked is a serious offense.
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?nick=hotbeastank
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4528206
08-24-09 08:04: Received 1 Gold from Erebes : New Account | 50, 51, 52, 53, 54
Let me offer a different perspective on the 3 connections between chat mods.
1. The HoA guild was created as a group of friends, by Ganz and...misself, I think, but I don't know the details. Most of the original members were regular visitors in the Inquiry chat (which mainly is the only used chat room). This led to them becoming friends with the chat moderators, and those moderators were invited to the clan along with other regulars (like myself), since they had become friends with the guild members. So the #201 guild contains a high rate of chatroom regulars.
Now, when choosing chat moderators, being a regular is probably a merit (since the job is about being in the chat room). It is not a dependency between being a moderator and being a HoA member, is is being a frienly chat regular that is a prerequisite for both.
2. WG is among, if not the, largest guild on the server, I believe? And it is mostly a forum? Then probability dictates that many moderators (especially forum mods) would be members of WG as well. Though I can't really comment on this, since I'm not a member of WG.
3. The relationships. Relationships in this game doesn't mean more than a word/link on your info page but again, I think these are signs of friendships formed in the chatroom, and being in the chatroom also, independently, leads to suitability as chat moderator. | 3. The relationships. Relationships in this game doesn't mean more than a word/link on your info page but again, I think these are signs of friendships formed in the chatroom, and being in the chatroom also, independently, leads to suitability as chat moderator.
DEATHisNEAR is in that room a lot and has a clean record but was passed over for two players who have spotty records but have connections. I can't say who else was passed over but I want to find out so we can see what went on. I am not saying some of your points are valid but it is hard to deny the connections and until we find out who the apps were from, I want it investigated. | | [Post deleted by moderator Takesister // Irrelevant post.] | Further investigation shows password transfer from Erebes with his NEW character. Now he was already blocked for this once. I fail to see how these two were accepted.
Erebes:
10-16-09 11:19: Player was imposed a penalty of 5000 gold. // staged battles - warid=15340835, 15339764, 15338967, 15338051, 15335847, 15335525, 15332568, 15331158, 15338219, 15340150
10-16-09 11:04: Player was imposed a penalty of 5000 gold. // 3.7. Password transfer to a different user and collective account managing are forbidden.
10-16-09 11:04: Player was imposed a penalty of 1000 gold. // Cease suspicious combats with Rubyannah's multies.
Dan-Panic:
08-05-09 06:37: Player was imposed a penalty of 20000 gold. // staged battle, relapse - warid=13589255
07-31-09 19:38: Player was imposed a penalty of 5000 gold. // staged battle, warid=13292959 | I would agree with this post by a moderator from a thread about what it takes to become a mod.
Takesister
[>] [q] 8 2009-08-27 22:42:48
1) Moderators must possess a immaculate command of English, its intricacies and nuances in grammar, punctuation and flow.
2) Moderators should never ask to be one, because asking means you desire power, and power-hungry moderators is not desired.
3) Moderators should know the rules well enough to not commit any illegal acts themselves
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1862543 |
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