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| Author | mixed tournament: pro and cons |
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well that's a long time a lot of us requested somethign different from those survival tournament.
mixed tournament is nice but for sure could be improved.
Here's what I noticed and would consider as small flaws:
- spell caster level 10 and more are too powerfull
why ? In classic game a spell caster is often targeted first by all opponents so they hope to face less fireballs and lightnings.
Problem is that in mixed tournament low levels can't do much against spellcaster.
1 fireball and they are out which means we suddenly pass from a let's say 10(wiz)-6-6 Vs 10-6-6 to 10(wiz)-6 and that's all and after nex fieball 10(wiz)-6-6 Vs 10 and of course the opponent can't easyly run thru a large battle field to get the garg.
- fast faction such as DE and deamons can do pretty much the same.
I mean they can easyly get ride of the low level the same way wiz can do.
The advantage of wiz/fast faction is increased when the opposite high level hero is not directly in front of it, (that one has to cross the whole battle field to kick them out and during those wasted turn the get killed by cerb, shrews or magic.
Of course you can disagree but I would suggest to have a different algorithm to setup the teams.
I just looked at a game 14-6-6 Vs 12-9-7
What the hell can do level 6 to help level 14 ?
Ok they can cast stoneskins if elf and play bodyguard to take retal but not sure it's so fun.
Could the algorithm be changed to create teams with less difference in levels (in the team itself and between teams) ?
Please share your feelings | | Well, I watched a few mixed tournament battles (not that I am participating) and I feel the same. | | I agree with you that the algorithm should start looking first trying to get same levels in the same fight ... | | u know, one of my battles i won thanx to 5 lvl...u are subjective. | use dark or light magic.
this is the answer to the question.
take this battle for example:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=489298314
with dark or light magic you are very useful regardless how low your level is(must enough for those talent).wasp is also very useful with nature magic talent. | And what for in this tournament the victory is necessary? I with pleasure have lost 10 fights from 12 and very much to it is glad. It is not enough experience - abilities much.
Even it is very good when the opponent on much stronger. | Hiya,
Was about to write something regarding this topic so thought I'll share it here instead.
First to answer part of TS comments -
I have won a few of the battles with the help of 'low levels', wouldn't have won without them. They sacrificed themselves (taking retal, casting stone, rapid etc) on their team mates troops, instead of just worrying about their own survival. There's much to learn from such players, low level or not.
K, regarding the topic, I personally feel this is a great tourney. The reason is not so much coz it's 'fair' or disadvantageous to any group of players, but simply because.... it expose the lower levels to fighting alongside the very highest levels for the first time, and fighting side-by-side/face-to-face with tier 6 and 7 (upgraded) creatures controlled by a human player for the first time.
I'm just a level 13 noob, but some of my team mates were so happy to have me by their side. And when they see the damage a tier 7 creature dealt, they went like "Wow! that's awesome! Can't wait to get them myself!"
I believe that this tourney has got a lot of low level players all excited, and motivated to stay in the game, and build their characters to the highest level, which can only be good for this server.
Why else would so many low levels keep joining the tourney knowing full well they are merely just supporting cast members in the battle of high levels?
For this alone, I say, "well done, admins", for bringing this tourney here. Great job! | what I don't understand is the way the teams are made ... see for example my last combat:
XXX[5], YYY[11], OndaNera[11] vs AAA[8], BBB[12], CCC[9]
now, it is 27 lev on one side and 29 on the other side ... not too bad ... but my question is: why not
XXX[5], YYY[11], BBB[12] vs AAA[8], OndaNera[11], CCC[9]
28 vs 28 ... any idea? | +1 to Jedi-Knight, I 100% agree with all he said.
As for your comments, El-Sheighul, I beg to disagree: spell casters are far from powerful. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Spells casters reach a peak around levels 8-11 because of artifacts, talents and spells. But at level 12 the amount of HP in an army becomes incredible through Citadel castle upgrade. Spell casters just can't cope (alone at least).
On lower level, however, a Poison Necro or Dark Elf can do extremely good, as well as the usual lightning wizard, even against high-level enemies. They'll die of course, but the damage they inflict can't compare to low-level might heroes. A low-level hero with top gear for his level will get crushed by any high-level one - even a magic build...
But that's just my opinion. | I agree low levels can be usefull but saying that means they are just pupets you can try to control.
Fight between heros having a diff or more than 3 or even 4 levels is not a fight.
Sure they can help (once again IF they listen advise and IF they have a least 1 usefull spell).
#4: yeah but you're level 10, maybe you can find utility to level 5 but as level 13 I don't find much power in a level 6/7
eg: would you prefer to be level 14 with dragon or level 13 and a poor barb player lvl 5 to help you ?
Maybe I think this because I'm level 13 and when I see a lvl 13 helped by 2 level 6 to and facing lvl 12 + lvl 7 and 10 i think better to be level 12 (only diff between 12 and 13 is 5 talent points) and have a lvl 10 wiz than a lvl 6 knight. | I have found this tournament a lot of fun and think admins have done a great job. In my 11 battles (so far) I have found the teams evenly matched and the only problems I have had are either people going afk or ones with little GB experience suiciding troops for no reason and/or blocking higher levels on their team from moving and/or attacking - see my last (11th) battle for a prime example of this where my level 10 partner suicides his wolf-riders & ogres for no reason when he could have kept them safe and without even getting an attack in and then blocks my death envoys so I can move!. It turned a battle we had a great chance to win into an almost guaranteed loss.
But everyone has to learn somewhere so overall I rate it a great success. | This Tournament is great
This mixed level tournament could change in a perfect random group battle isn't it??? :P
in this survival i faced jedi knight :P in a battle
jedi-knight[13], AAA[9] vs BBB[8] , KnightSlayer[12]
and here is a strange thing :P | It is a GREAT tournament! Only problem is "sh*t happens." That's life though. Sometimes you get stiffed with a bad team, but you only hope others on the server are getting the occasionally impossible random to keep it fair in the long run.
I was in a battle where it was:
05-04-10 23:49: CarDusanSilni[9], Elezar[9], Soulcube[11] vs limustudotcom[13], keez[6]
Level 6 guy lost to ONE EFK stack from lvl 11 Elf lol. Being a magic caster, I got totally rocked by the two lvl 9 DEs and Lvl 11 Elf.
So yea, the current coding doesn't take into account faction type. Had all 3 of my enemies been Necros...I would of had a pretty decent chance. But all 3 of my enemies were "Speedy" enemies = pretty impossible for a slow wizard.
Great event overall though! Keep them coming :)
[Player banned by moderator Sven91 until 2010-05-06 13:10:38 // swearing] | Looove the tournament, we asked for something different and we got it, no point whining about it, great exp and fsp and good fun
Thanks | overpowered wizard eh?
well i've lost more than i've won and i'm lvl 10 wizzie
i do think they can still improve this system some
but i'm not crying about it
no arts use, fun group battles, wide range levels together
this is cool
so i'm still saying thanks very much for the tournie :):) | ANYTHIN that encourage ppl to PvP is good. And the algorithm is not so bad, btw im just an ignorant in informatics but i guess it could't be easy to do somethin like this to be perfect.
C'mon now, give us a minor tourney :P | | I've lost 2/3 matches.. And it was because of the way people are mixed. Computers usually do averages, and usually the people with the biggest level wins ( e.g. in my first battle I faced a lvl 10 barb and I think he was able to kill me and my mate (both lvl 8). But it also had a lvl 6 with him... almost impossible to win ). But I still like the "no durability lose"! | it's not just the average of levels, it's more complex.
in most of the battles, the sum of combat levels of team with the highest level player is smallest than the sum of combat levels on the other team.
exemples:
05-03-10 07:27: DrHouseMD[5], _Raven_[13], magicanlord[6] vs REWesker[7], sholva[11], Karsot[11]
1st team: max level=13, total level= 24
2nd team: max level=11, total level= 29
05-02-10 19:56: Minamikase[8], Stranger[10], beastandbeaty[10] vs Karsot[11], Nereid[11]
1st team: max level=10, total level= 28
2nd team: max level=11, total level= 22
and it's better like that, because sum of levels don't means anything: what can do 2 levels5 against a level10? nothing.
the algorithm might be something like that:
level 5: 5*5=25pts
level 6: 6*6=36pts
level 7: 7*7=49pts
...
level 14: 14*14=196 pts
and the system tries to have the closest ammount of points on each team. | Maybe it would be better if we had more participants so algo would have more choice to build better balanced team.
Unbalanced team problem can be generated by the algo but by the particpant lvl/faction as well and in this case admins can't do much to improve.
The fact that a faction is better against another faction is hard to evaluate in terms of power.
It depends of hero level, faction, faction level, arts, stacks (eg elf with max anhco or max efk ?), place on the battlefield (wiz better to be far from DE or deamon).
So many factors that are not completely independant which mean almost impossible to have a fair fight.
Maybe the most simple would be to have less difference in terms of level between the team members and then between the 2 teams (with same number of players on each side).
eg: lvl 14 would face/be helped mostly by lvl 13/12 and never by lvl below 9.
Probably easy to change the algorith for that. | That tourney was actually quite interesting. Before the start I thouhgt that the teams would be quite one sided most of the times, but then I found they are quite balanced in most cases.
Matches that are huge victories for one side usually involved players of different skill lvl and were not due to unbalanced lvls on both sides.
And El, this tourney is called mixed, because of mixed lvls, if only the same lvls fight vs each other it would be a groub battle tournament. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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