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| Author | The Big Poison Questions |
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Playing a poison Necro for a while I'm interested in poisoning, which led me to formulate a number of questions here. Beware, those are hard questions.
POISON DURATION
I'm confused over duration of poison effect, especially as it appears on each unit information.
An Expert Darkness magic user has 5 "Turns"-lasting poison. I believed that these turns were *not* Hero turns (initiative 10) but Poisoned Creatures' turns. So a Guardians would suffer poison damage 5 times, and same for Shrews. Yet, because of their initiative, Shrews would have their fifth time much earlier than Guardians. Waiting would therefore kill a unit faster, since a creatures gets another turn only half a turn later. Same for a morale burst.
BUT - there's a but! If you look at a bunch of poisoned creatures immediately after some Mass Poison, they all have the same duration listed for poison (4.9). That's odd, and contradicting theory above. And what about effects arbitrarily modifying unit initiative AFTER poison? Would a delay slow their metabolism and save them, or a Rapid kill them faster? I'm asking, because if some poison duration is "computed" when the unit is poisoned, initiative alteration may change the deal, and it would actually be a bad idea to delay magically a poisoned unit, for example.
Same question for a Barbarian stunning blow, Dark Elf Dominion of Air, etc.
In all cases, I can't figure out how much "turns" are left from a given stack when looking at poison duration. Any hint?
POISON STACKING
How poison effects do stack? Player A poisons a unit for 20 damage / three turns, then player B poisons a unit for 60 damage / five turns. What is the final poison effect? Who scores the Experience / FSP for poison damage? Same questions if it's Player B then Player A... Is it the last effect that lasts, or the strongest? And should it be the case, how is the "strongest" computed since someone may make a strong but short poisoning, while another may make a weaker but longer-lasting poisoning?
Is there any difference game-wise regarding poison spell and poisoners' attacks APART from magic resistance? What happens if Poisoners shoot on a unit Poisoned magically?
Perhaps those questions are those of a sick mind - the least you can ask from a Poison necro - but I'd like to know. ^_^ | as far as i noticed:
1) duration. Poisoned stacks seem indeed to be poisoned for X of their turns. if you keep watching the information window you described, you will notice that the counter closes to 0 much faster on high initiative units than it does on low ini ones, i tried a mass poison on shrews + poisoners in a DE invaders quest and it was flagrant, poisoners remained poisoned 1 more (hero) turn than shrews.
Not sure about delay and rapid, but it seemed to me that they do not interfere with poison duration, meaning that the creature turn count for poison seems based on original ini. To be confirmed.
No idea about dominions and barb blows.
2) predominance of poison, like all other identical spells was first based on last casted spell; that is, if you cast with 60/5 and somebody comes right behind you with 16/2, it was his spell to remain active.
Since the updates, however, things seem to have changed, and now a poisoned stack will suffer the damages of the most powerful spell.
In all cases, the exp and FSP go to the player whose spell is damaging, whether somebody else casted a weaker one earlier or later.
As of poisoners, their damage has never lowered a spell damage, however, since only one poison can act on a creature at a given time, it is again the stronger damaging effect to be taken into consideration.
I don't know if after the poisoner's damage end (since it only last 2 turns) an eventual poison spell wich lasted longer would restart damaging till the natural end of its duration.
Some DE should try and let us know ^^
Also note that a dispersion spell can remove both poison spell and poisoner's poison. | | The deterioration of poison seems to be scaled by ini/10. This battle https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=17357616 the effect, poison duration on Efk goes down from 2.0 to 0.1 while stoneskin goes down from 8.8 to 8.0. The same battle shows that morale doesn't affect the poison duration, so it seems to be the only way for poison to trigger more often than expected. | fusei: we quite agree on this point :)
however, it would be interesting to verify the effect of poison on a slowed down or accelerated creature.
I had the impression that duration of poison in this case was left unchanged, but wouldn't mind a confirmation. | for telca:
In the battle I linked to the Efks were under the influence of rapid and the deterioration of poison was 2.375 times faster than that of stoneskin (Efk with rapid had 22.6 ini - so roughly the same)
As I see it everything that influences initiative (like rapid/delay) doesn't change the number of poison triggering, while everything that influences accumulated initiative (like morale, knock back, knocking shot, probably even wait) can change it. | | So, is there any "simple" way of knowing how many times a given unit is going to suffer from poison, from its initiative and the listed duration for poison? | If I'm correct the listed duration is the number of poison triggering and the only thing that will change this are effects that change the accumulated initiative, e.g. two morale triggering increases this number by one while things like stun and knock back may reduce it depending on the amount of accumulated initiative.
So it's hard to tell beforehand, but given you don't use abilities that affect accumulated initative, the expected value is [listed duration] + [expected morale triggering] / 2. | | I always thought that when they say turn it means the 10ini turn. But it seams that it's not the same for poison. So turn is calculated with initiative of the poisoned unit. Moral burst and stun will affect how many times unit will get poison damage but it won't affect on the duration of the spell. | So turn is calculated with initiative of the poisoned unit.
So if you would slow the enemy and poison him just before slow ends it should be way more effective? Since with low ini the 5 turns will last much longer (and without slow the enemy will get about 6-7 turns instead of 5) | | I think it is working with the current initiative. As the unit initiative changes so does the duration of the poison. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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