Forums-->Ideas and suggestions-->
| Author | A proposal to MODs/Keepers - Discussion |
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This thread is for discussing anything in https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864432
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MasterTI said - Because its not in there duties and already stated thoose in the keeper clan that fine for things other than Violations in tavern and battles will loose there privledges at minimum.
Where is this stated?
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As already said in first post in main topic. I am aware that this is not in their duties. This is meant to be a constructive post to find a way of dealing with cheats because this is not currently being handled by anyone.
There is obviously a risk involved and no guarantee as to how admins would take this action but taking no action is worse for the server.
As i said elsewhere - I would personally risk my character despite the time and effort I have invested in it if it had a chance of improving the game for everyone.
The large support this idea has already achieve in such a short time shows that I am not alone in my thinking but I would welcome hearing what others think (whether you agree with me or not). | I believe it's not the problem of a Keeper being blocked for misuse of authority, but that the admin would thus be forced to remove the fines that the Keeper did and send letters of apology to the cheaters apologising for the offence.
And these cheaters would not only get away scot free again and be immune to further prosecution due to 'double jeopardy', the admin would have to be forced to do something that they do not want to do - let the cheaters go.
It's like arresting a guy for possession of drugs when you only have a warrant to search for weapons. The accused will get away on a technicality and all charges reversed.
In the short term, the effect would work. In the long term, you would lose all mods and Keepers (people who have been keeping the order) and all the cheaters would be free to do what they want due to the 'mistake' made by the mods and Keepers. | The other side to that is that the admins would see that the fines were being applied fairly and would give the Keepers more power to do it officially.
Remember I am only suggesting that obvious abuses are fined. For example where people post their multis in their profiles and the transfer (& combat) logs show that these characters sole purpose is to support the main. If there are any doubts about a case then it should still be left to the admins to decide. It would also cut down on the number of posts admins would have to look at making their job easier.
I also cant see the admins spending time reversing fines when they dont even have the time at present to issue their own ones? | I also cant see the admins spending time reversing fines when they dont even have the time at present to issue their own ones?
You are pushing for them to come back, right? So when they do, they have to follow their own rules and abide by them.
Yes, it's their game, they can see that the fines were being applied fairly and would give the Keepers more power to do it officially., they can also follow the rules laid down and do as I have said. We don't control them, we can't anticipate what they will do.
The chance of this blowing up in our faces is still there, and THAT is the risk we can't take. | Hehe, I think you've seen too many movies, Takesister ;)
Double Jeopardy? I didn't read about that anywhere in the rules of this game. Also, IF the Admins made the time to punish these cheaters on their own--would they really invest the time to reverse some of the punishments Mods perform due to their own negligence? It would be too hypocritical of them to punish the mods, or reverse the punishments...would be a total boomerang effect if this were to happen lol. But hey, IF they were to do such a thing, at least it means they "care about the server again." At which point, mission accomplished?
Further, this is a game...not the outside world. Therefore, the punishments are handled entirely differently. I do not recall anyone being served a warrant, or being asked to appear before a tribunal, before being fined for violations lol. Could you imagine? The admins/mods would never be able to sleep if they did things here like they are in the Western world. This is just a game...don't take it too seriously.
What the community wants: Too many things! But on topic--Justice.
Who can deliver it as of this time: Certain Mods willing to stick their necks out for the community. IF I were a Mod with the ability to fine people, I would have done this a long time ago. I don't care if I'd have been scolded for it either, but at least I would of TRIED to make a genuine difference on the server and presented my case to the Admins at the time of scolding. I say this time, and time again, Rules/Laws are in place to protect the society...not to condemn it.
Somebody save this server lol.
Cheers,
LS | Oh yea...one last thing...any game/group/organization that punishes someone with good intentions, dedicated to making the world a better place, is not worth being a part of.
Should any Mod take the challenge and finally stand up for the server's needs where the admins are sleeping, should they be punished, I myself (or my clan) will gladly raise the money to reverse whatever financial penalty is put on your head.
If you are banned from the game, I myself, and probably many others, will boycott the game until the ban is lifted/expired/reversed. Or we'll work diligently to get the situation remedied.
Everyone of my friends knows that I am still playing this game ONLY because they do, and I enjoy playing it with them. Anyone willing to stand up for what is right, is a friend in my eyes, so you ding my friend unjustly it is as good a crime done on me too.
Cheers,
LS | So we are promoting anarchy to restore order? Makes no sense, right? Police taking things in their own hands and actually thinking that the government will support them just because it seems right?
And then you have people running around with placards, after the policemen are arrested for overstepping boundaries, asking for their release. Guess what? These people will be arrested too.
Then the Cheaters will be the only people playing and then the admin will remove them too and there will be no one left. I will not allow the game to be doomed just to pander to the whims and fancies of anarchists. We love the game too much to allow that to happen, as I'm sure you do too. | I am not promoting anarchy. Quite the opposite.
I am promoting careful, appropriate and necessary action to cover what is hopefully a short term absence of admin support.
I am not suggesting people take things into their own hands and/or that we move to a vigilanty culture.
If you want to view it in a police type scenario then I am suggesting the responsible people make citizens arrests. My posts are not designed to get at the mods or even the admins. They are to try and address a real problems we have on this server.
They are not designed to start a mass of indescriminate action. They are to find a solution to the obvious and blatant cheats who are spoiling the game for everyone. The difficult calls will still need to be made by admins because as far as I know no one here has access to IP or login information and to do so would result in some unfair decisions which are in no ones best interests.
My thread is to promote some law and order on our server and move away from the anarchy which currently exists.
Looking at the responses so far in the main thread, after less than a day on the forums, it is obvious that the overwhelming view of those who have replied is that they would like to see this done. | But by asking people to make citizen arrests when the law does not allow it IS anarchy, but you don't see it that way.
You're stirring up a riot and a lynch mob on your other thread and promoting chaos, but you do not see it that way.
You have asked the mods to take things into our own hands, but you see it as "not suggesting people take things into their own hands"
In the end it's either you or me that is blind. I hope maybe you can be right... *Casts summon admin* *fails* | My posts are not to have an arguement with you, any other MODs or anyone else on the servers.
I can understand and appreciate your opinion and ask that you can try and allow me to also have my own opinion even though it differs from your own.
I have written these posts because I feel very strongly about the situation and am trying to be constructive and post what I think is a good and workable solution.
I am not denying there is risk involved but can only say that personally I feel it is acceptable and that the outcome would be worth it.
I am willing to let the others on this server tell me if they feel my idea is good or bad and do not want to tie up this thread with an arguement over who is right and who is wrong.
I wont post here again until tomorrow night to give others a chance to have their say though I will be happy to answer any mails you (or anyone) wants to send me. | | i can see this is exactly why admins don't just simply give that ability to anyone (: | What we have now, Takesister, is in fact...anarchy...we have the absense of any "real" authority--or government as you are saying. My undergraduate major was Political Science once upon a time. I probably know too much about this subject for my own good, but se la vie.
What we lobby for is that those that have some form of Executive+Judicial+Legislative roles here(to follow on your politics metaphor), to step up, and fill in the gaps where needed for the sake of the community (or Society to further compliment your metahpor). You are correct, it isn't a policeman's job to ultimately interpret (cast final judgement)...or create (legislative) laws/rules. However, given the 'chaos' that exists on this server(people cheating their tails off, to start, and ignoring rules that are, in turn, HURTING the community) someone with some visage of authority needs to protect the community.
Who are these people? These would be the Mods...but more specifically the Mods that share in the frustrations, and are not going to sit by idly while the game we love goes down the gutter, due to a lack of financial rules enforcement. There are a lot of Administrative support issues that the mods are beginning to realize they should shoulder (or at least be aware of) as time goes by. This is a huge one. Ability to make the right decision...but go against the established order...this is not anarchy...if anything, it could be considered rebellion. Rebellions, challenges to established orders, have often brought about positive changes. Why not here?
Anyway, as DiN said, I am not picking a bone with you. I am just shedding light on why someone has to do something, and that someone SHOULD be the Admins--but clearly they have not been involved here actively for months. Even when I joined this game, Arctic was the only clear laison between "us" and "them." Arctic did a great job, but even he couldn't handle the load of this server alone and perfectly...but most of us were content knowing we at least had ONE tie to the admin world. How long has he been gone?
This is our reality today. I hope a few mods jump on board and take a chance on the community. I don't see how the Admins could punish the Mods for enforcing the very laws that the Admins created...but I've always been a "big picture" kind of guy.
Cheers,
LS | "Big picture" kind of guy? Basically putting at stake the little justice we have at the moment (two Keepers) for breaking down the whole system and exceed our mandate? It's easy to ask other to put their character and reputation at risk. And I wonder what kind of big picture would result. Instead of "more justice", I'd rather perceive a lawless situation where self-appointed dispensers of justice would abusing admin's trust and punish "cheaters" arbitrarily.
I can't believe I'm now asked this by the very same people nicknaming me "Judge Dredd" (among other things) less than one month ago and hating me for enforcing game rules even on high-level players.
Don't count me on this one. I'm already sacrificing much for the community, and betraying admins and my code of ethics is out of question. Sticking to my principles - that's my own "big picture". | | closed by Lord Kotrin (2009-09-24 11:04:36) |
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