Forums-->General game forum-->
1|2
| Author | faction stats, game future + a couple of small questions. |
|---|
OK, this post would have fit in about 5 different forum areas, so all in all, i decided it was a General post. hence it is here...
the "interesting faction stats" thread seems to have become mostly inactive. nobody ever actually managed to put up a good argument against the general consensus that elves are over powered. a few silly remarks, always from elves, saying that they arent over powered, and stuff is all good, etc etc. well... it aint all good.
whats more, i just went to check at the longer established .RU server. the top player over there is an elf. so is the 2nd top. infact, the top guy has almost 2 times the experience of any none elf player. this could just mean that he plays loads more. but there is clear an element of truth in the thoughts that elves are....... strong. :)
what is also apparent, is that my current faction (undead) has a bleak future... they are the 2nd biggest faction on the .RU server also. but not a single necro in the top 25. plenty in the top 100 (though still under represented as a %). i can only assume that the lata levels bring....... nothing much good for necros.
thus, my desire to play necro here is all but lost. having build up a lvl 5 necro, all those skill points, all that castle, almost 400 skels in my reserve, etc etc, i see i am on a road to nowhere...
this saddens me. i suspect the dominance of elves isnt about the be turned around anytime soon. so i feel i have little choice but to add to the bland landscape of the elf ruled game, and become one myself. if you cant beat them, join them. most disheartening. indeed, as much of a HOMM superfan as i am, i find myself almost tempted to simply stop playing. i dont think progress is going to be made on this imbalance anytime soon.
anyway. there it is.
here come the few questions related to this - and i apologise if these have been answered before, but the lack of a search option makes me rather unwilling to trawl thru hours of pages looking for a response which could be granted in minutes.
firstly, will i have to save up for all the new buildings of the new faction, from scratch? 2ndly, if i reach level 5 ar a barbarian, then play as an elf, do i keep the bonuses granted from the barbarian racial skill? and can i sell my skels, from within my elf class? | http://www.heroeswm.ru/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=18954569
check this, for an interesting battle. i dont speak any russian, but u can appreciate what is going on. basically, a lvl 12 + a lvl 13, vs a lvl 12 and a lvl 13...
sounds quite an even battle rite? wrong. check it. :) | | sounds quite an even battle rite? wrong. check it. :) did you see the modifications which had Shreck? | This battle which if someone from the russian server could comment on kinda makes my fears seem real so I will post what has been on my mind now for awhile.
I have heard this whole some factions are good on certain levels some are not so good on certain levels, and have sort of excepted this even though it is against my personal liking. Idealy each faction should be reasonably competitive at each level with any other faction give or take a little. I imagined though that at some point later in the game each faction would be rather balenced out, but alas from this combat seen above and from the faction stats here I am begining to think that elves are the best faction at these high levles.
A great deal of players will progress through the game to get to these high levels to find out what I wonder....that they have chosen a faction that was great for level 3-4 but now after many months is useless against faction x and that faction x always wins?
Maybe my fears are undue but some comment from experienced players of this russian server would be most apreciated. | aravil... i am glad you mentioned this... adding up the four primary statistics of the players in this game, the results are (picture below displays relative battle placement of the players)
45 necro 45 knights
45 elf 54 dark elf
so, they all came with a lot of arts. the elf ACTUALLY had relatively fewer arts, indeed, joint last. the dark elf was the guy with all the crazy stats, and he was first out, cus the elf went and beat him into next week. there is another debate here, the magic vs brute force debate, clearly the elf used brute force to totally ruin the dark elf's magic ability... but i dont wanna get into that discussion here...
fact is. the elf didnt win cus of his arts, cus they werent really any better than the rest. he won, cus he had some totally crazilly over powered units. as i said before, the longer this problem persists in this english version, the more difficult it will be to make the necessary balancing changes without upsetting people. but no1 is even looking at making these changes it seems, so the topic is moot. and hence i will be playing elf. so, if any1 could answer those few questions i posted above, i would be endebted to them! :) | Hmm, there are always manners too win.
Truth is that atm elves have a advantage over other factions, but it is also possible to win. Just need a little of luck.
And I guess that the admins are working on the balancing aspect of the game, because this fact is mentioned a lot.
Just don't think that they are deaf or something, they see all the ''elves are too strong'' posts and I'm sure there will be some balancing soon. | | Specter, you need to build the buildings for a new faction when you switch. That is the reason it is pretty hard, because it's like starting over again. | When changing faction, you need to purchase building for that faction all over again, but should you decide to swap back... the old buildings of previous faction still remains.
All the stats points gain from the faction level is lost... no 'racial skills' can be brought over.
The only thing advantageous about is you gain a X% of reduced damage from that faction ... where X = the faction level.
(which is darn teeny weeny bit not worth) | they see them, but dont comment, other than to say stop moaning (mods say that at least - in some threads). the prevalence of people moaning about elves doesnt mean that the admins are gonna make a change, infact most people are moaning because they think changes wont be made. how long has the .RU server been going? years maybe? and elves are still crazilly over powered there... well, i wont be playing this game for years, i can tell. so, i will remain blossfully short sighted, and abuse the over powered elves till i get bored with the lack of balance :).
thanks for your reply tho faithbringer. i will start saving my cash up now i guess! thing is, i dont have a market to sell my skels, but the act of buying a market with my necro, seems a bit silly, cus i wont have that market, with my new elf character! lol... dang!
if someone could let me know the cost of the elf recruit building and the druid recruit building, that would be great - no point changing faction till i can afford them both, as i wont be able to win any battles as an elf at level five without these buildings! cheers all :) | Hehe, druids are great for elves yes. Without them it's a bit harder to win battles.
I don't know the price for the buildings either, because I'm a knight and stay a knight, guess someday knights will take over the control :p.
And you can just look what is better, buy a market with necro, so you can sell the skeletons or don't buy the market (just look what has more profit). | The cost for all buildings up to, and including lvl 5 is:
12800 Gold (+10000 for the Spirit Upgrade)
13 Gems (+25 for the Spirit Upgrade)
21 Crystals (+25 for the Spirit Upgrade)
13 Sulfur
3 Mercury
21 Wood
35 Ore | blimey...
that is a lot of cost. i will perhaps try to save up to 10K gold, then swap over and see what buildings i can get nice n quick...
the spirit upgrade seems to be similar in cost to the skel bowman upgrade. thus i assume it is the faery to sprite upgrade. at level 5, that doesnt look to be worth it.
hmmm... seems i will be waiting a few more days till i can make the swap tho, which is a small shame. will be nice to have the choice between elf and necro tho. | Mmm, Faery to Sprite, and Skeleton to Bowman are the two most impressive upgrades IMO. The sprites have 7 speed, 14 ini, no retal, broad attack, and are casters!
The upgrade is worth it... But it's darned expensive. | i'm not a highlevel on a russian server , but there elfs on a 6-7 levels are not the strongest.
As for the higher levels , fact, that the first top player(Shrek) elf doesn't say that elfs rule. On ru server majority of elfs are stronger in thieves' , mercenaries' and hunters' guild , than in PvP and group wars.
P.S. Anyway , if elf has good crafted items, he is good(not genius) in tactics and of course very lucky, he has a chance... | 5.
Looking at primary stats and adding them up doesn't do you any good you also have to look at the whole picture.
1) the elf had 3 morale <- boosted morale from artifact
2) did you look at creature init. the elite forest guard had a initiative of 22, the initiative of a regular unboosted is around 15. whereas the shrews of the dark elf had 17.9 init when they start out unboosted at 16. This was either heavily boosted by arts or guilds and faction levels
3) not to mention the morale they got at the start, the result would probably have been quite different if they didn't get morale. And the elite forest guard also got favored enemy which further boosted damage.
ps: majority of dark elfs stats were in spell power and knowledge which didn't play big role in fight, whereas the elves majority were in attack so even though the darkelf had a numerical advantage, it didn't mean much | i looked at the main stats, cus they are the most easily directly affected by arts, and the easiest to get a quick reading from. 3 morale is nice. as is favoured enemy. as is luck. these things i did notice, but to say that they were definitive is not imo, too accurate. the extra init, i must admit i hadnt noticed... i have only ever seen that boosted by a few tenths of a %, hence i didnt look too closely at it, but yeah... 16 to 22 is huge.
and i know the dark elves were mostly in spell casting, but that was the choice of the player, high spell casting has great merits, we can all agree, but he was simply not allowed to take advantage of this skill, due to elf domination.
i picked this battle entirely at random, it was the first i checked. i didnt go thru loads of battles to find something to strengthen my point. so yes, there are many small factors which perhaps played to the elves favour in this instance, but i dont think u could say that it was an entirely unrepresentative battle, while u certainly could say that the elf entirely dominated every1 in it. elves dominate the top 10 here AND there, so it seems up to level 13, overall, they certainly do seem to be the favour race. maybe at lvl 14, things will all change and the rate of EXP gain will slow, forcing elves out of the top. but this hasnt happened by lvl 13.
as for myself. i will swap in a few days. i wont get the faerie upgrade, too expensive, and imo, at lvl 5, FKs are still worth rather more in PVP battles. it is a shame i am leaving necro behind. i really do enjoy it, and atm i feel it is a good strong race, but the results from RU server show me it has not such a bright future. while atm, i am winning 9 out of 10 battles (hunts included, poor proxy i know :p), it seems this ratio would be hard to upkeep lata in the game. and i do love a good ratio. :p | | Dude your name does not fit with the race of elf, alas I had at one stage been tempted to do as you had said and change to elves but what sort of world is it where everyone is elves? Boring if you ask me. Resist Resist Resist! | 16.
Remember that on RU elf were already in play before demons, barbarians and DEs were implemented.
At the same time necros, wizards and knights heavily rely on their faction skill to be successfull. That's the main reason why many top players on RU are playing elfs. | | if people think that elves are stronger then just change to elf | vampyre, i wholly agree. it would be boring. and i truly hope that sometime soon, the balance is redressed, and i can go back to my home of being undead. but actions mean more than words - if enough people tilt the game in the direction of elf, then maybe change will come quicker? and an elf complaining about elf dominance carries rather more sway than just another necro crying that his ghosts got hit by druid lightning.
huntress, i dont know any of the history of the RU server, but what u say is quite interesting. demons and barbs are relatively under powered and underplayed anyway, but that DEs came in so late, and yet are quite popularly played, and do quite well, is also quite telling - i would certainly say that DEs look to be my 2nd favourite of the races at this time.
it seems anything with the word ELF in the race is favoured by the admins when they balanced the game...
please, make a race called undead elves! hehe. kiddin. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
1|2Back to topics list
|
