| Author | The Great Experiment |
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| I buy arnaments sometimes, but it is getting too expensive to be buying for every time troop changes.So should you really be complaining about these things if one is ready to spend gold in order to get small-small benefits in battles and you're not? |
People bemoan about a system being fair, without a true understanding of what fair means.
Fair means that the opportunities one person has, the other does not.
In this regard this game is pretty fair, everyone has the same opportunity, just due to gold cost some of these opportunities, while available, are harder to consistently access.
The one way in which this game is NOT fair is that if you have played for longer you have a greater advantage. This is mostly in the form of LG level, since the others will tend to scale with combat level. They have acted to ameliorate this by having guild potions to accelerate growth.
Arguably some of these things give a potential advantage to a new player, provided they use them correctly.
IT is a personal choice to optimise these things on any given level, by going carefully and slowly.
It is equally personal choice to just play the game as you wish it, with less thought with regard to character build.
In my opinion, if someone has gained an advantage by playing the game with the SAME rules and the SAME dynamics, but they are more discerning in what they choose to do and get a better character then fair enough.
IF someone did not realise this potential consequence, or does not like it because they would like it to not have been there, it does not change the fact that this dynamic has been there since the beginning. Failure to realise its significance is the fault of the observer. |
Well yes. Your fellow clan member is also expressing his displeasure earlier.
Sure, it might just be "small" advantage according to u. But all these adds up to a ridiculous 11 stat difference! |
Doh, no edit feature and an absence of checking before clicking send.
Absolute face palm!
Fair means that the opportunities one person has, the other does not.
What I meant to say was fair means that the opportunities one person has, the other person has as well.
Equally if you prefer the converse unfair means the opportunities one person has, the other person has not. |
for Lord MilesTeg:
So it is my fault that I enjoy playing the events that is REQUIRED to do by the admins to get rare item parts. Players who played years more than me doing nothing except PvE and enrolling is not fair at all.
You raise some GOOD points though. Guild potions to accelerate growth (which costs gold) is a step forward in the right direction, and the average is so low to begin with. It is ridiculous to see such a low average when pumped player have not 1 but 3 to 4 more guild levels compared to u.
What about P2W players who abuse:
Day of helpful hunters
Day of Mercenary
FSP from chest of abundance
Did they use the same dynamics as us? Like I mention to Uncle Psycho, your fellow clan member is also complaining about the unfairness, as well as a few other players. I enjoy this game and have donated my fair amount (which went into roulette). And yes that is my choice and I don't curse the admins for creating roulette. Although, I curse my luck sometimes. |
Taking the average is not fair. It should instead be the highest guild level for the level -1.
Pumped players (top 1%) have up to 5 or 6 more stat points compared to a above average player. I found out (thanks Hapkoman) that I am in the top 10% of my level but how is a player in the top 10% so much weaker than that of a top 1% player? |
| Dont play roulette mannn, odds are always less than 50 50 |
for kchong:
Fairness is about being equal, in this regard it is pretty equal, and therefore fair. To your liking, perhaps not, but nor unfair.
People all too often associate fairness with being nice, or to their liking.
Imagine a parent disciplining their child by giving a very harsh penalty to a low level issue. They repeat the same low level issue, and get the same harsh penalty.
This is not nice, it may be lower than perhaps other parents, though this is not the reference that matters. It is internally fair since the same action resulted in the same consequence.
So with this to my mind you can say you do not like it, and that it should perhaps be a different system, to lessen the impact of different levels of character development, though I do not think you can say it is unfair.
To counter an individual point you make it is not technically required to do the event to get artifact parts, though I recognise the market route is especially expensive. Equally however it is not a requirement to need artifact parts, nor is it required to have a super win record to get the necessary artifact parts. As such I do not think that particular point really adds to your argument. |
Just in case you guys don't know, whatever being discussed here is of no use as it won't change anything.
If you got some ideas, go post it in I&S section. |
It is internally fair since the same action resulted in the same consequence.
You could argue it's not the same action, due to learned behaviour and previous consequences. I imagine it's like a teacher at first telling a child to be quiet and the second time sending the kid out the room. The "crime" of talking to someone was the same, but it's not the same action due to already being told off previously, therefore the consequence is different.
I've got no skin in the game, just an hour till my next meeting, I'm just being factious |
for Meshy:
A valid point, and why normally the same negative action when repeated after a previous sanction has been applied tends to result in a greater sanction.
However, I did not want to complicate that particular point so deliberately avoided that. Thanks for flagging it up ;p |
for kchong:
You gambling away all gold and not being able/willing buy armaments is depending on you not on others. I buy most of the armaments. Little investment considering i wont lose and will get more gold, better mirror.
You have no argument here. You have all the oportunities in the world to prepare for event (having gold for best arts and armas)
Generally you might spend 30k on armss i guess(if you play all your battles in 4 hour period, and troops you use can be used in multiple days. So 30k is fair number. Mostly i buy atrack and def armas only, unless i have used that army before. Thus i take ini aswell. All i do is cauculated. |
A distinction should be made between competitive character-building and competitive combat;
much of this game, CG and most events such as this one included, are more of the former rather than the latter.
I am all for equal PVP combats, and I am sure many would want this as well.
But there's currently no guilds that satisfy such requirements (same effective stats and faction levels regardless of character and resources).
CG just happens to be a fitting candidate and thus the target of many past suggestions.
The best in this game usually wins both the character-building and the combat sub-games.
But that doesn't mean we should be giving up mid-combat when we've already lost in character;
that would be conceding both our sportsmanship and the potential difference between combat skills (in our favour or otherwise).
If we are not willing to accept this, then a different game we should play.
I tend to think of it as giving or receiving extra odds,
as in Chess where the grandmasters could still win against amateurs when starting without a queen.
Or grandmasters winning against a strong AI when the AI starts with 2-3 fewer pawns.
Of course, humans would lose if this goes in the other direction and we are the one getting 2-3 fewer pawns instead.
So of course character difference is a valid point.
But who's to say that our odds when facing a stronger character in this game equates to exactly this and this many stats and thus conclude that all hope is lost?
Of course there's a limit, but we can't gauge the difference in combat skills and see if we can at least upset the match without at least trying.
No grandmasters resign on their first move. |
| So embarrassing... My copy won but I lost. :-( |
| XD have happened to me aswell |
| just saying thanks to latviesu lords for sharing morning battle...the build (with much less army thou) still works quite ok :) and since i usualy do not have much time to play..i played now few battles and did very good compared to some other builds |
8.00 to 12.00
Good luck guys. Won all my battles compared to the earlier midnight battles.
Rifle build here. Take magic guild or u will lose. Enjoy easy wins.
Everyone is playing defense. Do not worry. Decay from archliches, magic punch from battlemagi and crossbowmen take care of these noobs. Do not be afraid.
Rifle build vs searing horse/elephants/wyverns/fortune genies (Win/Win)
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=1108753577&html5=1&show_for_all=L5678068777
Rifle build vs Devils/Fortune genies/Dune raiders (Win/Win)
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=1108754430&show_for_all=Laf93c5acc4
Rifle build vs Tribal cyclops/trappers/Pit demons/Shamans/Guardians (Win/Win)
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=1108755589&show_for_all=Lf8be7f3beb
Rifle build vs Archliches/battlemagi/Trees/Poisoners/Stalkers (Loss/Loss)
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=1108756715&show_for_all=L54306c9c34
I ended up losing the last battle due to stupidity and well, he also was not only pretty pumped, but had liches in defense parameters. I was tired and honestly did not think. Shooting the liches first might have granted me a victory. Otherwise, this is a pretty solid build that u guys can try. good luck! |
But uh, those who are afraid of that last army composition. Don't be.
It is a terrible army setup and he lost most of his battles lol. But yea, u might run into 1 or 2 of them in your battles today. It is better to accept the loss than to try something else or even worse, use his army and lose to the majority of other army sets. |
Players who played years more than me doing nothing except PvE and enrolling is not fair at all.
You just started playing last year..You think a player like me (I've been playing since 2013) would think it is "fair" that they spent years to not get any reward for it? Reread the first part of your statement if you must. "players who played years more" is the key here. When you do something significantly longer than another person you're inevitably going to be better. Besides your argument is completely invalid as you also have the ability to grind in pve but choose not to. It's not unfair you're just being incompetent. You think any of us enjoy traveling the map for 20 minutes to get one mercenaries guild point? No |
Kchong you want to talk about unfair? You should have seen the days where you could lose a hunt and get fsp but 0 skill points.
Anyone have the link to that player who was level 3 with like 7 different factions leveled up to 6? |
