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| Author | Babarians |
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| No one will/is forcing you to take those Gob Arch..take Hog gobs as usual... pfft.you guys just need a reason to complain -.- Before complaining again read Dedengkot's post.. | | He, he, Dendengkot, you haven't played barb yet. As I said, just win some duels and post it. | i think new faction skill for barb is useless
this skills r good for defensive players like wiz and knight
about gob arch, we will become weaker against knight bec of gurd or swd
The faction ability will always be useful, unlike DE or barbarians old faction skill. Does are only useful sometimes. So that statement is wrong.
Getting an alternative unit cannot make you weaker. If other factions get a better alternative unit that can make you weaker.
But I think Gob archers is cool, give you a lot of new options. | | with gob archers barb will have 3 shooters in their army, with this setup surely can kill atleast elf range (gmb and anch) while don't know about skel bows, but I'm sure they can compete with that, and then when you got lots of shooters you are forced to wait your oponent to come, in that case this racial ability can become really useful. | 124
but barbarians will have problems with magicians for sure..
a necromancer, e.g., will simply take Dominion of Pain and defend. so shooters won`t help here. | | dominion of pain or expert nature magic can kill barb, for sure you won't defend against magic, barbs are pretty slow faction, got not so much health. My startegy for barbs was a suggestion it shouldn't help barbs in killing others, actually almost everyone high level player knows that barbs are not an idol faction :))) | a necromancer, e.g., will simply take Dominion of Pain and defend. so shooters won`t help here.
Right
We need magic resistance | But the racial skill is useless- it will operate for only one strike in the whole match- and that a difference of 10% or so.
You split your 4 farmers to take retaliation. Can you still do that when you have Cavalry and Angels? How are you going to deal with Behemoths and Ogres charging towards you? The new Barbarian ability only gets better with levels.
Ah, well- just post some barb victories in duels here,min AP,and we'll see.
The problem with you people is that you disregard equipment when deciding faction balance. You can't do that. This game is not designed to be played naked. If you're really concerned about magic users killing you, then you should invest in good anti-magic equipment. Minimum AP is for hunting and mercenary quests and I can tell you that magic resistance is useless in most of those fights.
Also, Barbarians have access to Resistance and Barrier talents if you really need magic resistance. | from barbarian view: we dont like the new ability, we have to take more damage from elemental damage. but, will the little damage boost help?
from other might faction: dang, they deal even higher damage now...
from other chaos built faction: finally, i had suffer long enough on barbarian. time to revenge now
from other support built faction: nah, holy spells still work on my side as usual. sum up with barbarian new ability, it can help barbarian even better. on other side, dark built finally can work on those dang barbarian now
so, from the summary above, i expect admin is try to balance on the magic built strength.
sum up with the other update previous (such as increase defense talent cost on knight, reduce chaos talent cost on both wiz and DE, troops recruit balance, 5x5 AoE mass dark spells), i would this is just part of the balance on might and magic.
about gob arch, we will become weaker against knight bec of gurd or swd
interesting, i m sure all other factions have range unit as well. but, i failed to see how the mighty guardian OR knight become strong/overpowered in such case.
He, he, Dendengkot, you haven't played barb yet. As I said, just win some duels and post it.
guess what?
before i play as wiz and DE, someone was questioning my statement while i post on those faction topic just because i m a knight.
after i had play as wiz and DE, my statement had been proved correctly BY myself. what now? those players said i m not play long enough. ROFL...
so, each faction can only comment on its own issues?
by the way, duel isnt a good way to find something out. it only worth for testing purpose at high level. | Look, regarding duels- that, with min/full AP, whatever you like, is the only way of proving something in this matter one way or the other. Duels are, to test this hypothesis. Regarding the rest- they are all opinions- and everyone is entitled to his own. A few facts are sure:
1. Loss of the magic resistance weakens the barb against magic. Regarding how important magic is at higher levels- well, wizards have been consistently voted as the most overpowered in higher levels. After lvl 14, magic does become lethal. And in the top 20, those great players use every build possible-including plenty of magic- and often win because of them. If you say magic isn't used much-well all factions except barb have magic. And it IS used.
2.The new ability of the barb works for about one move of the game, and hence is useless. This should be obvious. The barb is not a perfect might faction. Too weak defence.
Hence- barb has been nerfed. How this is relevant to other balancing issues, I know not. Most barbs, I believe, share this opinion. The other factions are pleased. Ask the author of this update why he thought this up- and you might get a proper answer. | The other factions are pleased.
Let's make a list of factions that are pleased:
Knights - Poison build, if there are such knights.
Elves - None (no damaging spell except punch which ignores magic resistance).
Necro - Poison build (uncommon, but not unheard of).
DE - Chaos build (minority), poison build (non-existent).
Demon - Same as DE
Wizard - Chaos build (majority).
So, basically, except for wizards, the majority of the factions are not pleased. (This is for lvl 13 and below). After lvl 14, I agree that there is more magic, but it is still only wizard and DE (and sometimes demon and necro) that are pleased.
I agree that the new ability seems quite weak in pvp, but it is amazing in tourneys and hunts against slow creatures. Look at DE ability - useless in PvE, and useless in PvP for might players. Look at wizard ability - only useful for PvE.
If you say magic isn't used much-well all factions except barb have magic. And it IS used.
All right, let's accept that. How much of this magic could a barb counter?
Could a barb stop an elf from blessing unicorns, or summoning a phantom of gmbs?
Could a barb stop a necro from raising the dead?
Could a barb stop a knight from using rapid on his guardians?
I'm not sure about how magic resistance affects darkness magic, so I won't comment on that, but I feel as if it did not have much of an effect, if any. | | Change of Barbarian special ability is good news. Before the game was very unbalanced in duels. I played duels also as barbarian and also as wizard, and all battles of the type barb vs wiz was pretty boring. When I was barb I knew that I will won, when I was wiz I simply knew that I have no chance. | Well, you have just pointed out that 3 of these factions do benefit (demon, wiz,DE). And you have made my point precisely, the barb can't stop all magic. And the other 3 factions have the magic that the barb can't stop (Knight,elf,necro).
Brilliant. So the barb IS nerfed.
I realise the point of this upgrade now. It is just to ensure that more people use magic. Barb vs wiz is now unbalanced the other way. Hmm. They should have given us a better faction skill- one which increases defence. That should have balanced the barb. The faction skill is useful in hunts-but thats it. In tournaments you are just competing against other barbs. | After lvl 14, magic does become lethal. And in the top 20, those great players use every build possible-including plenty of magic- and often win because of them. If you say magic isn't used much-well all factions except barb have magic.
Let's see. At level 14 we have...
Obsidian helmet - 5% magic proof
Fullmithril armor - 5% magic proof
Cape of arcane protection - 15% magic proof
Obsidian boots - 7% magic proof
That's like 32% total magic proof from artifacts alone. But there's more. At level 14, everyone would have like 55 talent points. Let's see what we can get...
Resistance (18 talent points) - 20% magic shield
Barrier (18 talent points) - 20% magic shield
For 36 talent points, Barbarians can have additional 40% magic resistance along with 10% damage reduction from melee sources and 1 extra luck which aren't really too bad. That brings us up to 72% magic resistance at level 14. Still worried about magic?
Note that per Grand Update, Barbarians would get (6 * [faction skill level] + 5) magic proof. At level 14, the player with highest Barbarian rating now is Laurelin with over 4487 faction points. That's faction skill level 9. That would have been 59% magic proof even without equipment and talents. I'm not sure if 'magic shield' and 'magic proof' are the same things, but if they are, Laurelin could have 131% magic resistance in the old system...
2.The new ability of the barb works for about one move of the game, and hence is useless.
You think this is a fact? It only shows that you don't know how to use the new ability.
Look, regarding duels- that, with min/full AP, whatever you like, is the only way of proving something in this matter one way or the other. Duels are, to test this hypothesis.
Fine. Go ahead and challenge a Barbarian and post the battle link here. They're weaker now, you should be able to defeat them easily. | Resistance (18 talent points) - 20% magic shield
Barrier (18 talent points) - 20% magic shield
For 36 talent points, Barbarians can have additional 40% magic resistance along with 10% damage reduction from melee sources and 1 extra luck which aren't really too bad. That brings us up to 72% magic resistance at level 14. Still worried about magic?
The resistance is sub-additive so you cannot sum it up to 72% + Magic users got magic piercing arts
That being said I cannot believe that barbariens are so angry by this. I thought barbarians know is a even more attractive faction than b4. A lot more fun to have a faction skill that are useful in every match. and also takes some skill as well | The resistance is sub-additive so you cannot sum it up to 72% + Magic users got magic piercing arts
I'm not actually sure if all those numbers accumulate by addition or multiplication. I didn't bother with magic pierce arts because they made the old ability less useful, therefore, favorable to the new ability. | Well, you have just pointed out that 3 of these factions do benefit (demon, wiz,DE).
Wow, it's like you just take the words which support what you're saying, even if I'm not saying that.
My point was that only in wizard do the majority of players benefit. For de and demon, magic is quite rare, so for the most part it is not beneficial to them either. (again, i'm speaking for lower levels, not lvl 14+). | Note that per Grand Update, Barbarians would get (6 * [faction skill level] + 5) magic proof. At level 14, the player with highest Barbarian rating now is Laurelin with over 4487 faction points. That's faction skill level 9. That would have been 59% magic proof even without equipment and talents. I'm not sure if 'magic shield' and 'magic proof' are the same things, but if they are, Laurelin could have 131% magic resistance in the old system.
In the old system, numbers work by multiplication, so her resistance (including talents) is calculated after: 0.95*0.95*0.85*0.93 (from arts) * 0.8*0.8 (from talents) * 0.41 (from old system resistance at fsp lvl 9) = 82%. Today, this percent goes down to 55%. And if we dismiss those talents which barbs doesn't choose anyway we get 29%. Just like any other might faction. | In the old system, numbers work by multiplication, so her resistance (including talents) is calculated after: 0.95*0.95*0.85*0.93 (from arts) * 0.8*0.8 (from talents) * 0.41 (from old system resistance at fsp lvl 9) = 82%. Today, this percent goes down to 55%. And if we dismiss those talents which barbs doesn't choose anyway we get 29%. Just like any other might faction.
Thanks for the clarification! | | OKkk but we are talking about lower lvls |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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