| Author | Dark Elf - please read |
|---|
As far i understand from the racial abilities is that the races is sett up as a rock paper scissor idea.
Barbs endure the magic of wizards and other races and have the power to kill most of them. Knights have the defense to deal with the extra dmg from the barbs.
Wizards and DE have the magic to counter the defensive power of the knights.
Elfs have the ranged power and aoe mele dmg to take out the casters of wizards and the dmg dealers of the DE. DE in turn have their magic to inflict massive dmg on elfs ranged units.
Demons can almost double the amount of units they start with and place them behind enemy lines or block them (leave a demon alone and you will get overwhelmed) demons counter wizards,DE and necro good since they steal the mana from them, necors who literally live of their mana and the special ability of the necors are easily countered by skilled players putting units on the bodies. The knights counter elfs good with their swordsmen who take next to no dmg from ranged units also the escort talent is a pain :P
Necros are kinda good against most races i think, they have some problems with demons and maybe elfs but overall good against everyone else
In the end it mostly comes down to how you play the battles if you attack the right thing at the right time
The DE are not underpowered what so ever seeing as you fight good against all races except the few who counter your abilities
Elfs are inded powerfull if the player that plays them are lucky lol :P the cirt is what makes the elfs as all elf units have very low hp and cant take a beating :) i would say the DE will become increasingly powerful at higher lvl.
finally i have not played any other race then elf these observations is what i have made from playing against and with ppl and seeing what makes each race a problem for the other so im sorry if i am wrong in any of my assumptions above |
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=2100560
yes ... DE needs more power ;)
and this DE is a new one and not only melee skilled |
| hmmmm i wouldnt say dancing around slow zombies with a shrew and more arts than most ppl only could dream of is much of prof :P but id does prove its alot about knowing the strengths of your units and the weakens of you opponents and also knowing your own weakens and not play it into the enemies hand |
it profs that no other fraction can do this in this way ;)
and infected zombies are not the slowest unit |
| slow on initiative i should say :P |
| From the little experience I have, I think dark elves have pretty much an equal chance. Yes, the big thing is to get more experience so that they can be stronger, but as I see this is true for all. |
quote:
"http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=2100560
yes ... DE needs more power ;)
and this DE is a new one and not only melee skilled"
OK, CMEPTb own 1043 Infected zombies, but Cepionis - 1060;
Uliss - 1060 both without Shrews.
Look at Top Hunters, how many DE you see?
Even if you find, it will be record with slowest creature. |
@levy
but both with fractionlvl 6 or 7 - not 0
and btw - yes i think shrews are lowlvl units - upgraded 2. slot-units
but better then all others. even better (and more) then most 3. slot units
if i look @ demon you can compare them with cerberi (slot3, lvl 10 upgrade) and even cerberi cant beat shrews if they dont have time to gate
cerberi - shrews
attack 4 < 5
def 2 < 3
dmg 4-6 < 5-7
tp 15 < 16
speed 8 = 8
ini 13 < 16
ability noretail/return ? spray/noretail
stacksize cerb < shrews (10%) |
My 2 cents:
Dark Elf may or may not be underpowered. They seem to do reasonably okay in small battles...2v2, or 3v3. I suppose the major reason everyone feels they are underpowered is tThat Dark Elves get gunned down first. I've noticed this in almost every battle I've been in. The first target every ranged unit picks on is usually the rogue.
There's something about the ranged battle that I disilike. I've watched people lose heaps of units without ever having been able to use that stack even once, and I can tell that it's certainly very frustrating.
Speaking of that Dark Elf Racial ability, if HeroesWM is trying to imitate HoMM5, they should have picked out a better skill to give to the DE. The racial chains ability would have been a much better choice than piercing magic. If not that, then perhaps make the talents cheaper...The talents that give unique abilities to certain spells. |
Another proof that DE is weak, is to look at the top hunters, compare within the same level, for example, lvl 5 (since I am at lvl 5), and pick a monster, any monster, and see the max number each faction can deal with. I will just give several examples, including zombies and demons, since these are the slowest ones, to which DE has most advantage as said by many,
DE knight necro wizard elf barb Demon
zombies: 244 248 244 244 413 244 318
demons: 244 318 318 244 537 276 244
imps: 344 482 448 294 757 448 344
bowman: 179 240 232 260 271 179 179
...
actually you pick any monster, and compare it yourself you will see similar result.
data talks. enough said. |
i cant see a big differece betwen these tophunter results - ok abit weaker vs imps but they drain mana and demons/wizards have the same problem
and why are rogues and shrews 1. target? bec. the most dangerous units are 1. targets |
| as an elf i notice that elfs are 1 target in any game they are inn DE ussualy get shot at second if they have a elf on their team. manny games i have only had my fk to do anything with because my archers and druids got hammered first and i accept that as good tactic from the other team since elf archers are dangerous if they get to be alone just as its good tactics to take out the rouge. the rouge/shreew is as i see it a ranged mele unit if that made any sense hehe so targeting it first or close to first is smart |
Hi,
i would like to give my 2 cent as well. I've just reached lv5 and i can say that till lv5 i havent noticed that DE is underpowered. Well Piercing Magic was kinda useless in that lv range but i thought it might become powerful later.
As i reached lv 5 things started to get a bit frustating. Ive got the lizz. They are nice.. but ive just got the feeling that they are not that strong against the other t4 units. Humans got their griffins which got unlimited retalaition(suicid attacking them with rogues), Undead got Vamps which suck life, have no retaliation and can be revived, orcs got ogres which are slow but awesome powerful and they got a lot of their mighty orcs aswell, demons get a might range unit the succis and elves get even more range units. Of course it is possible to beat them in a duell, but its hoping for them to make a mistake or to have more luck then normaly.
btw if an experience DE have an advice for lv5 i would welcome a PN with some hints for that lv. |
My beef isn't with the rogues being targeted first. What annoys me is how the entire stack tends to get wiped out without even getting a single hit...at anything.
Naturally with such a powerful melee race, it is expected that a lot of the units will die before they reach the other's troops. Seeing as the Dark Elf lineup wasn't meant to have many ranged units, this needs to be compensated by something.
The Dungeon race had powerful heroes, and not to mention the racial chain ability. Piercing magic isn't effective for a lot of the units out there, and in the end, it only allows the hero to do the damage he was SUPPOSED to do in the first place.
The way I see it, if the Dark Elf lineup is not meant to have ranged troops, thats fine. But I really hope changing that completely useless faction skill is something the admin is considering.
Or at the very least, make Piercing Magic more effective on regular troops as well. 40% magic damage on spell resistant troops, and another 20% extra damage on regular troops. Something like that. |
I am a Dark Elf fan and am in someways dissapointed with the lack of strength that we have but if you think about it dark elf are not meant to be strong......but fast and annoying to the enemy troops. for example: rouges have the hit and run attack wich has helped me out ALOT in some fights. Bandits are good you just need to use them more like swordsmen and other close combat units and minotaur..well.....that speaks for itself. You just need to learn how to use them properly.
I find it easier to fight against barbarians then any other faction.
but in someways I do agree with you. It would be good if we had a boost to something different. |
As DE lvl 5 in 1v1 combats i had problems with necros, wizards and demons. Against human, elf and barbarians i win 90% in full arted duels. Dont know about no arts combats, cause lack of SP.
Anyway, the weaknesses i noticed :
Against wizard: Wizards have enormous burst dammage, in first round they deal 150-200 dmg and there is no way to prevent it. Miniarts ... 9 hp gremlins ?!? In round 3 DE have only minotaurs and posoners left.
Against necro: DE with posoners cant outdammage 6 knowledge necro with 75 skeleton bowmans. In tournament battle you cant choose your opponent :) With no poisoners recruiting it is different but still hard and depend on the luck against the ghosts.
Against demon: Lack of mana and gated units. The gated units are not dangerous, they just help the 6 SP demon to survive enough to cast all his (your?) mana. 7 rounds, 72 dmg magic arrow each round = 504 dammage.
All the 3 factions i think the DE is weak against, have creatures, which are not alive. It will be good if DE faction skill is something like "unliving mastery" - more dammage against undead, mechanical or gated units. And it become available on lvl 5, because in lower levels there is not the same problems and it will make the DE even more overpowered against this factions in level 1-4 combats. |
i cant see a big differece betwen these tophunter results - ok abit weaker vs imps but they drain mana and demons/wizards have the same problem
and why are rogues and shrews 1. target? bec. the most dangerous units are 1. targets
From a quick glance it looks like they take the lowest, or tie for lowest, in every category except imps...how can you not see that? |
| Dark elves seem to dominate the field, I am only level 3. Maybe they get weaker later on. But at first, they dominate the battlefield. |
| Yeah, rogues are pretty great in the beginning. Lvl 4/5 ranged units start to kill us badly. I don't 1v1 anymore at all. I did win once though in a 4 person free for all that ended up having no one join, so I face a necro with no skeleton bowmen. |
| bump |
