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| Author | God and Religion |
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Some must read articles:-
I myself ,am not christian, so i can not authenticate some of those things, but still a good read !
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/reason.html
http://godandscience.org/apologetics/notseegod.html
and a video :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ml0FqyFYfrU | | u could publish a book by combinin all ur comments :D | http://godandscience.org/apologetics/natural_evil_theodicity.html
That was funny. It felt as if the writer recently got battered by atheist in a debate and just wanted to remove his anger without facing a series of questions. Just the fact how he says The universe that atheists think God should have designed is the one in which He will reward those who believe in Him. Duh. No mate, it's not just we atheists, it's everyone.
No atheists do not think like this... Contrary to what atheists want to believe about God, this universe was not designed to provide an eternal, perfect place for humans to live in. It is perfectly designed to give human beings the optimal conditions under which choice between good and evil can be made. That is retarded. Which atheist said that the universe is designed to be perfect?
This is wrong on so many points. Sigh. It's like he is giving intellectually valid points and ends every point with "That's how God designed it to be". Well, all believers to the same. | Looks like you represent all the athiests in the world :P Do you? ;)
I myself do not agree with some of the points mentioned there,but not as athiest. | Looks like you represent all the athiests in the world :P Do you? ;)
At Least he represents my views :p | http://godandscience.org/apologetics/reason.html
I will just quote and evaluate certain points.
No other "holy" book tells its readers to actually put what it says to the test. The Bible can make such a statement because it passes the tests of truthfulness that no other "holy" book can.
"Only I am the ultimate. Others are just plain bs". It sounded like that imho.
The Bible says that God and Jesus Christ will test the minds (as well as the hearts) of people. Yes, that is perfect. God will test the mind that God has given to humans, God created humans and endowed them with a mind a mind to which God has given a zeal to and then God will draw the conclusions on the same. Smart.
The Bible says that those who do not believe do so, in part, because of deception in their minds. God created deception in our minds and then considers it bad. Mhmm I like where this is going.
We are also encouraged to direct our "mind to know, to investigate, and to seek wisdom and an explanation." Yes but you never take that encouragement. All you do is just nod your head and go "Hail Cesar". In this case "Hail Almighty Lord".
Faith is of utmost importance to the Christian.
What's the definition of faith? "strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof." Oh, that sounds good.
No wait, I'm wrong. But the Bible doesn't say to limit your belief to faith alone. In fact, it commands us to add first moral excellence then second knowledge. That is perfect. But then... Solomon, in his prayers to God, asked for wisdom and knowledge, both of which God granted to him. Damn. So should I read books or should I pray? I am confused. I am a dumb human, why can't things be simpler here.
The Bible encourages believers to have a knowledge-based faith, built upon sound biblical doctrine. Oh yes, the source of my knowledge is so full proof, after all it's "Biblical Doctrine".
The Bible teaches a rational faith, based upon knowledge and refined through testing. Convenient lie. Rather the ones with knowledge have refused it's teachings to a great extent.
Ultimately, God wants all people to come to the knowledge of the truth of His salvation through Jesus Christ,37 so that they may spend eternity with Him in the new creation.
This is the biggest problem with us, we want to know the "Reason" why we are here. It's like asking, "Why is the mountain there?" What answer are you expecting? It is just there. It is not necessary for something in existence to have a PURPOSE. Similarly we are not here for a "DIVINE PURPOSE". We are just here. Breeding and populating.
The reason why we want to know our "PURPOSE" is because we want to ensure that we are Very Useful. It sounds real cool when you know you are here for a "Purpose". And this very urge to convince oneself that he is useful, lures us into things such as... so that they may spend eternity with Him in the new creation. | OMG hahahahahaha i had the laugh of my life rading all the comments...
What is told is not always true.ppl lie.-anon
Player banned by moderator MrBattleControl until 2014-05-05 14:41:20 // FR 4.2.1 / Long string violation (Warning) | http://godandscience.org/apologetics/notseegod.html
This is so funny. I had a great laugh. Ill continue with the same, quote and comment.
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's mind?
TOMMY: No.
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one!
Girl, you can see the teacher's mind. Do what I say, just take an axe and cut right through. You see the brain there? That's where her mind derives thought process from. Convincing.
A Creator God, if He exists, must, by definition, exist beyond the limits of the universe in order to have created it.
Yes thanks for proving my point. The biggest proof to everything about God is "BY DEFINITION". That's the best proof ever.
The laws of physics tell us that we cannot make measurements beyond the limits of this universe.
No mate. We can make measurements beyond the limits of this universe. For that we need to know the limits of the universe first. It is very stupid of us to say we cannot measure something without even knowing what is its composition or how it is like.
God could not reveal His entirety to us without causing major problems in our universe. I don't think if he simply comes from the clouds and does a world audible announcement saying "I AM GOD" it would cause any major problems in the universe.
The sudden appearance of dimensions and matter(?) from outside the universe would destroy anything in the vicinity and maybe even destroy the entire universe. Appearance of dimensions? So now God is a dimension? He is from a different dimension. He is scared of us it seems. He is hiding. Aww cute. So Kawaii. Duh.
However, God could reveal His nature by communicating with humans and sending an incarnated version of Himself.
No that just contradicts what you said earlier. If he wants to communicate, he will have to undergo a dimensional transition and enter one of the dimensions of the universe so as to transfer the energy and capability of reincarnation over to a mortal being. That would destroy the universe according to you. I am dumb human. Help me comprehend what this man says. ;)
Although you cannot see God directly in this life (but you will see Him in the next) What if THIS is my NEXT life? How do I know which one is the NEXT life? How do you know that for sure there is a NEXT life? You haven't seen him, which means you are in the CURRENT life. Which means you have no knowledge of what happens in the NEXT life since you never entered it. Convincing indeed.
When you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior,4 you enter into a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit.
No thanks I'll pass that. I'm straight.
It is through this relationship that we can enter into the joy of the Lord
Joy of the lord. This sounds bad in so many ways.
If you are not a Christian, you will not believe what I just told you. I know, because when I was an agnostic for 33 years, I did not believe that you could have a relationship with God. Since 1988 I have been experiencing the joy of the fellowship of the Lord and I want the same for you. Don't wait! Get your questions answered and come to faith based upon the facts, and enter into the joy that cannot be found through anything else in this world.
I am no a christian. Yes I do not believe what you just said. Why? Not because I'm not a christian, but because my evaluation skills utilize my brains to deduce onto the conclusion that you've not talked a single factual point. You were an agnostic for 33 years.... and one fine day you "Entered into a Relationship with God" and Kaboom, you were enlightened.
The later part sounds like... "Come one, come all. Don't wait any more, this is a one time offer you can't refuse!" Yeah I want to buy your holiday trip, where do I register? ;)
P.S. Too m | | P.S. I am too much free today it seems. :P | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ml0FqyFYfrU
Videos are tougher to evaluate yeah? Lots of metaphors, human communication puns. Lets see how this goes.
So this guy was NOT a believer because he was raised that way. Surrounded by music, arts, etc. How does that make you NOT believe? Your whole earlier life you were told to adhere to "Knowledge" that's why you didn't believe. But then came "FAITH", the most SOLID FULL PROOF thing ever to exist and you started believing? This calls for an applause.
But hey guess what! There are millions our there who ARE a believer because they were raised that way. But they threw out "FAITH" and they stopped believing. This means it's not the existence of GOD we need to think about, it's about the existence of FAITH. Yes, I have FAITH that there is a Rainbow Unicorn in the skies. I know it is there. I felt it last night. I have faith.
So he went into medical science where he got acquainted with Life and Death. Then what he talks is, just plain "Beat around the bush" stuff which every believer talks.
First of all, YES we are DIFFERENT. Similarly, the Koala is DIFFERENT. Does that make us Holy and it not? NO.
He talks about sins. Then he talks about "OPENING" his mind to the possibility of God. No mate, you didn't Open your mind, you just found it very difficult to reason any more.
Not one thing in that video talks about anything in particular. It's like any other believer talking about how he/she got "Enlightened". | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazkojLa6mE
That's something worth watching. | What is the point in engaging in religion if it can so easily result in harm to others when taken literally?
Are you suggesting we ban cars for the actions of few reckless drivers? Some people do benefit from religious beliefs and practices. There are people in various professions who devote their accomplishments to various deities and whatever. I'm not sure if they will be as productive (or sane) if they didn't have some sort of belief to get them through the day.
Also, fairly modernized places already have laws against murder and medical malpractices. I believe those are enough to keep religious people from practicing antisocial behavior and harmful religious rituals. If the religious people are the majority (make legal outrageous religious laws), then that's actually a bigger problem than religion itself, I believe. One, there's tyranny of the majority (religious or secular, rational or irrational, it makes no difference to me, tyranny is tyranny). Two, there's lack of education and poverty. Religious extremism is just a symptom of bigger problems. I think it's dangerous to fixate on it.
Once again I ask - why believe in any of these religions until such time as there is some reliable evidence that such a religion is "true"?
Some people simply do not care about reliable evidence or any evidence for that matter. They have bigger problems than to doubt that someone almighty cares for them. The universe is kind of a scary place, if you think about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
Why not adopt a social framework that has a positive outlook on your fellow humans?
I find this statement weird. It's like you've never seen benevolent religious folks.
That way people can avoid the cognitive dissonance inherent in professing belief in a religion whose teachings the followers largely ignore anyway.
I repeat myself, I think you have way too much faith in the willingness of human beings to embrace rational thought. This raises a deeper issue than religion. Do you think it's wrong for people to hold irrational beliefs? | Are you suggesting we ban cars for the actions of few reckless drivers?
I never said anything like this. Nor did I imply it. Reckless driver? Take away their drivers licence. If they keep driving? Impose punishment according to the law because they are willfully endangering others. The car is not the source of the problem.
Some people do benefit from religious beliefs and practices.
I did not deny it. I did point out however that the "benefit" is usually from the social framework rather than the belief system. And there are many good social frameworks, some significantly better than the religious ones, IMO.
I find this statement weird. It's like you've never seen benevolent religious folks.
Gee, good thing you put my "social framework" question in it's proper context.
For those that don't care to read back to post # 91.
If the "best" feature of religion is the social framework, why not discard the silly trappings that come with all religions (and apparently causes some people to behave irrationally and in an anti-social way)? Why not adopt a social framework that has a positive outlook on your fellow humans? Something unifying rather than divisive?
Notice the "some people" reference? It's almost as if I acknowledged that *most* religious people do not act irrationally or anti-socially. It's a good thing nobody could possibly try and take that out of context. Oh, wait!, they did! I wonder if there are any religious rules forbidding people to "bear false witness"?
I'm not sure if they will be as productive (or sane) if they didn't have some sort of belief to get them through the day.
Humanism is a belief system. It just doesn't call for belief in the supernatural or some "ultimate authority" for which there is no solid evidence. Most religions have rules for which the punishment is death and/or damnation, using fear to enforce good behaviour.
Humanism relies on empathy and valuing humans and humanity to influence people to do the right thing. Not the hypothetical "carrot & stick" of heaven & hell that religion uses.
Don't forget that the suicide bombing "community" is almost entirely faith based. This is because it is only really possible to convince those that have an irrational belief in an unproven "afterlife" that they will be rewarded *after* they have blown themselves to smithereens.
And this is simply one of many irrational beliefs that can directly cause harm. Everyone should have heard of the cases of parents letting their children die because they believe that only prayer can save them. Only those who believe witches exist are likely to burn someone for allegedly being a witch. Only those who believe in souls and heaven/hell can be convinced that it is acceptable to torture someones body in an effort to save their soul from hell and "gift" them with heaven (the basic premise of the Inquisitions).
It may be true that not all irrational beliefs have negative consequences, but it is trivial to show that there are irrational beliefs that can result in harm to believers *and* those over whom the believers hold sway.
Lies generally beget more lies, whereas the truth can stand on it's own merits. Personally I would rather a harsh truth than a comforting lie.
How about you?
Grunge | Do you think it's wrong for people to hold irrational beliefs?
Yes it's the worst form of ignorance. Let's look at the definition itself, Irrational beliefs are attitudes, beliefs values etc that a person strongly holds despite objective evidence, generally available and understood, to the contrary.
A person carrying such an attitude is not only psychologically unstable, but also poses a threat to the society and system. Such people do not believe in evidence, so if you hold them guilty for anything whatsoever, within their conscience they would still believe themselves to have done no wrong. This denotes that such people lack a rational sense of morality judgement.
Terrorism is a perfect example of an outcome of irrational beliefs. I'm sure such people convince me thatit's wrong for people to hold irrational beliefs | omg this has become serious o.O O_o
and yes disparing on basis of god is very very wrong :( | Any religion that has world domination and places one group of people over another as a core belief is going to be violent...
Islam is violent because its core belief is that it has the one-true god - and thus it has the right to dominate the world. It claims Muslims are morally superior to others.
Judaism is violent because it believes that it has the right to the "promised land" and that Jews are superior to Gentiles... it claims Jews are superior to non-Jews.
Christianity is violent because the core belief (of many denominations) is to convert others in order to save their souls. It claims that it is the one-true religion and that Jesus will return to save those who believe. Thus claiming Christians are morally superior.
All of these Abrahamic religions essentially create an "us against them" mentality... which breeds violence...
Members of these religions are usually indoctrinated from childhood to believe certain things... and once a cancerous belief is implanted - it is difficult to change it.
In the Middle East, the regions are disorganized... no one is in charge, and they haven't yet developed SECULAR values... and so - you are going to find more violence in Muslim regions due to this lack of political structure. Also - at the core of Islam - you will not find ideas like "love" and "peace" - but rather - I'd say the most prominently is "fear" - it is most important to "fear god."
A belief system based on fear creates paranoia, anger and hate...
However, if you are going to criticize one religion because you think your religion is better... then you're just as good as they are.
Credits: Yousif R.
Ref: https://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120916032651AAS18rt
Excellent. | I did not deny it. I did point out however that the "benefit" is usually from the social framework rather than the belief system. And there are many good social frameworks, some significantly better than the religious ones, IMO.
This is interesting in that this highlights how differently we think. You see religion in how it affects people's relationship with each other ("social framework"). I see religion in how it affects a person's well being as an individual. I see that it makes some people happy and kind and inspired and I do not consider that a bad thing. That is the "benefit" that I was referring to. A strong individual will not be hindered by a bit of irrational belief and may even gain from it. Consider the great names in science who were also christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science
To quote:
According to 100 Years of Nobel Prizes a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference.[1]
Personally I would rather a harsh truth than a comforting lie.
I'm with you on this but I really don't think that this will work for all people.
Humanism relies on empathy and valuing humans and humanity to influence people to do the right thing. Not the hypothetical "carrot & stick" of heaven & hell that religion uses.
It doesn't matter to me either way. I don't care what people think as long as they leave me alone. I don't care if you worship Jesus, or the Spaghetti monster, or if you're a very pragmatic "rational egoist". As long as you don't bother me, I'm fine with you. I'm in a country full of christians and I'm still alive so far. I don't let people know that I'm agnostic, though, as that always ensures lengthy discussions.
A person carrying such an attitude is not only psychologically unstable, but also poses a threat to the society and system. Such people do not believe in evidence, so if you hold them guilty for anything whatsoever, within their conscience they would still believe themselves to have done no wrong. This denotes that such people lack a rational sense of morality judgement.
Don't you think that his stand is rather too paranoid? I really do not feel like lecturing my grandmother (a devout catholic) that she's "psychologically unstable" and pose a "threat to the society and system". That "psychologically unstable" person practically raised me. Going to church with her every sunday when I was young did not stop me from being agnostic now. | I see that it makes some people happy and kind and inspired and I do not consider that a bad thing.
I am sure the inspiration you are talking about out here is the positive one, but what you overlooked is the fact that there are certain inspirations which lead to bad outcomes. For instance, inspired to spread and enforce a particular religion on the entire globe.
A strong individual will not be hindered by a bit of irrational belief and may even gain from it.
Sadly a vast majority of us are NOT strong individuals. We are more like a herd of sheep, we don't think, we simply leap where the herd leaps. And that is definitely a dangerous thing in context of extremists.
Your further comments showcase your personal lifestyle. Sadly the attitude of
As long as you don't bother me, I'm fine with you. is not followed by all believers. ;)
I really do not feel like lecturing my grandmother (a devout catholic) that she's "psychologically unstable" and pose a "threat to the society and system". You do not feel like it that's your problem, because you should. I have personally converted my father from a devout Hindu to an Atheist. If it's wrong, it's wrong. Truth is truth, it doesn't change or morph as per who says it and who believes in it. | For instance, inspired to spread and enforce a particular religion on the entire globe.
....
And that is definitely a dangerous thing in context of extremists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Religion
Bottom line: even atheism have its extremists and crusaders. It's not fair to judge a belief based on the actions of the extremist minority.
If it's wrong, it's wrong. Truth is truth, it doesn't change or morph as per who says it and who believes in it.
You sound like you have romantic notions about the "truth" and hold it as a moral standard. I do not share your idealism. I judge a belief not by its "truthfulness" but by its results. If it helps a person become a good parent or a Nobel prize winner, I'm not going to argue against it unless I find something that produces better results.
What I really fear is that if we remove religions, a lot of people would descend to unproductive nihilism and all sorts of weird fake religions and cults. I can hardly believe something like "scientology" actually exists but it does. Remove the existing religions and you're going to have similar deals like that pop out all over the place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology | Grusharaburas, you seem to be under the impression that everyone who projects religious belief to the community at large are inevitably religious.
Ever heard of the Clergy Project? It's for religious representatives who can no longer stand pretending that they accept the supernatural beliefs associated with religion.
http://www.clergyproject.org/ - you might also be interested in the News & Media section.
If the priests, imams and rabbis can't sustain a belief in their religion after "being called", why would you imagine that ordinary people who don't profess such an influence aren't just doing it for social acceptance?
Since your linked "List of Christian Thinkers" includes Galileo, you should probably have a closer read and see how many of the early ones were punished as heretics by their own religion. Some were even being burned at the stake for demonstrating observable facts about the world that disagreed with religious dogma.
Speaking of which, here's another list relating to what is almost entirely a religious practice. Oh, what a one-sided boon religion has been for humanity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_burned_as_heretics
I always get a laugh when those poor "persecuted" christians cry about how discriminated against they are. Considering that for most of recorded history professing atheistic beliefs was essentially asking for summary execution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_atheists
You'll excuse me if I have no enthusiasm for religion. I always wonder how many people would "come out" as atheists if the stigma associated with atheism disappeared overnight.
Grunge |
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