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| Author | Discussion: The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law. |
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Draconian use of power will not be accepted without our voices being raised against it.
I totally agree here, it's an outrage!!
May Empire strike the traitors down for not clarifying bumping rules! >:( |
Since there have been a couple of complaints this point will be discussed and I think that soon it will be clear if the flashmob part of the forum rules is also in effect in the T&S section.
How are we going to have a discussion if people keep getting banned and their posts deleted? Cantbestopped raised a valid issue about selective banning in the Trade section. | Here is my opinion on the T and S issue raised here:
There is no bumping rule for the T and S section as of now...moderators cannot go around "making up rules" as they see fit, either, lol.
In fact, I update my Repair thread there under Smiths + Enchanters every time I HAVE an update--ie Repair wait time is now 6 hours, is now 4 hours, is now 20 hours, etc.
It is because of the nature of the T and S forums that no such bumping rules exist. Maybe they'll make some in the future. I double checked all of the T and S sections for any "forum rules" before I made this post to make sure I didn't look like a maniac before posting. There were none.
Cheers,
LS | Oh yea, one last thing, I think there is an auto-regulator on posting in the T+S forum that none of the others have. I know sometimes when I post it doesn't let me update..I think it is less than 1-2 hours, I forget. I've only seen it 1-2 times since I started posting there.
Cheers,
LS | It is because of the nature of the T and S forums that no such bumping rules exist. Maybe they'll make some in the future. I double checked all of the T and S sections for any "forum rules" before I made this post to make sure I didn't look like a maniac before posting. There were none.
Absolutely agree.
I mean all that updating is even great for the customers, so they can see, if a renting/smith/enchanter is available, whether his offer is still active etc.
I've made up a thread in the General game forum section, where I was asking people, whether we all should gether together and think of some general rules for the T&S forum section to keep the place neat and tidy and a convinient thing for us all to use and to prevent such a selective banning as happened days b4. I've asked everyone to keep the discussion civilized and democratic and to make sure no flame and no flood were involved. And guess what? That thread was almost immediately deleted. You may all probebly guess who deleted it.
And we had there couple of people already talking about the whole concept of such a T&S rules and what a good idea that was.
I mean, for Christ's sake, that's for our all good, why making things ugly? For what? This is a great game, why should some people try to make things ugly with their unappropriate actions? | I double checked all of the T and S sections for any "forum rules" before I made this post to make sure I didn't look like a maniac before posting. There were none.
If there were none special rules giving an exception from bumping at T&S section, then bumping IS illegal.
I know sometimes when I post it doesn't let me update
Each time there is less than 1 hour between two posts, the topic wont jump on the top. In fact this can be used to prevent other people from bumping their threads. If you post each 45 minutes anything into someone`s thread, he will never be able to get on top. Although there are other dirty tactics that work in this section. I know that because I was buying elements for my enchanting some time ago.
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=6
4.1. and 4.3.
These are the rules that would make bumping illegal. But there is an offcial thread(cant find it now) giving an exception to these rules for trade section apparently. | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1839102
I think I have misread the thread. There was NEVER an exception for bumping threads at trade section, therefore it was never legal. It was just tolerated. It was tolerated for so long that we didnt even notice it is wrong. | For as long as I can remember, the Trade and Service section was left alone and players who posted there were able to bump their topics without penalty.
I cant believe it took me whole day to notice this. There is absolutely no legal reason why should the users of T&S section be protected against it. It was tolerated for so long that we thought it was ok. It is not. I thought I just couldnt find the exception from rules for trade section. There is NO exception.
Its the same thing Kotrin brought up months ago about other rule that was widely ignored. The fact that 100 people break the rule for 15 months doesnt make it legal. Its just something that we got used to.
Same would go for you guys, cleaning up the C&A mess. The fact that it was ok for 9 months doesnt mean it was legal. EVER. | for Omega22:
Are you serious? I mean, do you have to have a law that allows you to eat some, dunno, cakes, because if there isn't such a law, you can't eat them?
Administration made it perfectly clear for us, when they applied that 1-time-an-hour update thing, that woun't let you bump your thread in less time?
If there's no rule PROHIBITING you from doing something, than it means you are free to do that.
Same thing on the .ru server. You can't bump your thread more than 1 time an hour, though you're free to bump it as much as you want unless the content of your thread and the general scheme of your thread are unappropriate for the section.
That's the second nature of the T&S forum, because it's the only place on the forums you're free to advertise your goods and your services.
And following the logic of 4.3 and applying it to the T&S would make mods ban all the people out there and sooner or later noone will remain offering their goods and services there (aware of a forums ban), and that will be a very bad thing for the game's economy. | Same would go for you guys, cleaning up the C&A mess. The fact that it was ok for 9 months doesnt mean it was legal. EVER.
Then neither is the off game spamming/flooding topics you choose to ignore because you feel like it. Also, why have the most prolific "abusers" been left alone and unbanned? Right or wrong about what is legal or not, it is 100% wrong to selectively ban some players while allowing others to walk away. | If there's no rule PROHIBITING you from doing something, than it means you are free to do that.
Actually there are two rules prohibiting that:
4.1. Flood means posting messages not related to the discussion matter; messages not carrying any sense; messages acknowledged useless by the moderators/administrators; messages violating the local rules of a forum branch. Flood is not considered a malicious violation, however such posts can be deleted and the author might get banned.
4.3. Flashmobs on our forums are forbidden. Flashmobs are events when a player or a group of players post multiple messages of similar content in order to promote a topic, sink a different topic or provoke a moderator to lock or delete an important topic.
Now please, show me the exact rule, saying these two rules DONT APPLY somewhere at forum. All that has to be done legally is impose a warning BAN to the rest of them.
It was maybe tolerated until now for the simple reason, you have to give flooders some space to vent their steam to keep them off main forums. There is also no official rule letting them spam Off-game forum, but off-game forum really serves the purpose of flood venting. | It was maybe tolerated until now for the simple reason, you have to give flooders some space to vent their steam to keep them off main forums. There is also no official rule letting them spam Off-game forum, but off-game forum really serves the purpose of flood venting.
Really? Show me in the rules where it says you have to give flooders a forum to vent. This is your own thought. We are protesting the now enforced flashmob ruling on a different section. Waiting for the rule about the flooder thread. When you show me I will stop. | Show me in the rules where it says you have to give flooders a forum to vent.
Thats just my guess about something that mods might have agreed upon. I can imagine how the situation would get worse in other sections if the off-game was severely moderated.
But according to rules, we should be all banned. All. Thats why its up to common sense of a moderator to decide on some occasions. If we were strictly following the rulebook, I believe I would find some rule-break in each section. Done by almost every player.
Just let faithbringer finish the job and ban the rest of them. Then it will be all fair, right? We might get a silent forum for a while after that :-) | 4.1. Flood means posting messages not related to the discussion matter; messages not carrying any sense; messages acknowledged useless by the moderators/administrators; messages violating the local rules of a forum branch. Flood is not considered a malicious violation, however such posts can be deleted and the author might get banned.
That rule doesn't apply to that section simply because the updaing IS related to the subject matter. By every update a topicstarter shows his offer is still active, so that's the wrong rule you have chosen.
If you are willing to debate on messages not carrying any sense thing, people can simply start bumping their threads by some "my offer is still active, please feel free to PM me". And that sentense will bring hell of a sense so the 4.1 rule woun't be able to regulate it AT ALL.
4.3. Flashmobs on our forums are forbidden. Flashmobs are events when a player or a group of players post multiple messages of similar content in order to promote a topic, sink a different topic or provoke a moderator to lock or delete an important topic.
Following that logic, as a previously said, maderators should go on and ban all the people in the T&S forums. Right now. And ban people over and over for posting multiple messages of similar content in order to promote a topic (in other words, bumping their threads). This will blow out the game's economy, since people will spent WAY less money and leasing artifacts and buying goods from one another, and will provoce them to adertise thier servises and goods in other forums sections, which will lead to tons of forum rules violation.
Will you take THAT responsibility? Go ahead. I don't think the administration would like it and will grant you a medal or something for 'war on the threadbumping in T&A'. | T&A
T&S, my missprint there.
Anyway, we've all been witnessing some severe selective banning on the T&S recently, and that's not a good thing for a game either.
That's why I've created my topic in the General game forum section, asking people to participate in debate on the general rules for the particulat T&S section, since it was an urgent thing to do, so we could all have that section regulated properly. Instead of a discussion, I had my thread deleted.
So the mod, who deleted that topic, thought that there was no need in such a rules. Okay. Now we know, whom to point out and to blame, when all the T&S participants get banned and the economy of the game (along with the rating, online etc, etc, you prolly know the consequences) will go straight down and when the Administration will start investigating, what has happened and led to that situation with the game's economy.
So go ahead, try it out at your own risk. I woun't be surprised, if I see such a people promoting that 4.3 rule to be applied for the T&S forums will eventually got blocked for the distruction actions, that bring the whole game game. Go ahead. | This transcript was from the public inquiry room and it shows that even some other mods are confused about this issue. How are we as regular players to cope and understand what is being put upon us out of the blue if heavy hitters such as TS and Queen_Amanda are baffled?
17:01:08 [Takesister] to Queen_Amanda: I don't know how FB interpretes that flashmob rule though
17:02:16 [Queen_Amanda] to Takesister: no clue
17:02:44 [Takesister] to Queen_Amanda: ok. no more discussion about it | Will you take THAT responsibility?...
Thats why I dont have the buttons for that.(thank God)...but when you brought this up, I dont think bumping at T&S forum is essential for game-economy.
If you are willing to debate on messages not carrying any sense..
Did you notice Takesister never uses simple bumps, she always writes something new in her thread. I think I now get part of the logic in that. (now good night all, omega out.) | [Post deleted by moderator FaithBringer // Off-topic, and again disputing actions of a moderator.]
[Player banned by moderator FaithBringer until 2009-12-25 08:11:54 // Off-topic + Disputing actions of a moderator on the forum instead of Secretary, relapse. Read forum rules and then come | I dont think bumping at T&S forum is essential for game-economy.
Then tell me, why would the administration create that forum in the first place? To let all the people create one thread for a person and forget about those forums? If that forum section wasn't crucial, it woun't even be there at the first place. Like we don't have a section, like "Bunny vs Carrots" or something like it. All the sections we have are meaningfull, and since trading and leasing and service means economy, the T&S section is crucial for the game's economy. See the logic?
Did you notice Takesister never uses simple bumps, she always writes something new in her thread. I think I now get part of the logic in that.
Good for her. Too bad the mods should ban her as well because of the 4.3 rule. And that will happen to each and every player who ever left multiple messages in order to promote a topic.
If the mods follow that logic, well, rest in peace the economy of the game. Since no advertising, no business. No business, no money. No money, no artifacts. No artifacts, no combats. No combats, R.I.P. LWM.
If that's what they're trying to achive, let them do that. And I'll be the first person to report this situation to the administration, informing them that a group of peope is trying to blow the game's economy. I don't think they would like that fact. And to makes things even 'better', we have all those forums threads and all that stuff as a clues, so it will be just a matter of time for administration to block those players.
So please, go ahead, try to RIP the economy by banning people out of the trading forums. Go ahead :) | This transcript was from the public inquiry room and it shows that even some other mods are confused about this issue. How are we as regular players to cope and understand what is being put upon us out of the blue if heavy hitters such as TS and Queen_Amanda are baffled?
17:01:08 [Takesister] to Queen_Amanda: I don't know how FB interpretes that flashmob rule though
17:02:16 [Queen_Amanda] to Takesister: no clue
17:02:44 [Takesister] to Queen_Amanda: ok. no more discussion about it
Thats because I am a chat mod not a forum Mod . No chat mod has any right to interpret Forum rules unless they are part of the forum mods . |
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