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| Author | Dark Elves faction topic |
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shift+attack is good sometimes.
but it's not what i was talking about.
the problem i mentionned is this one:
if my 12 rogues plays before my 1 rogues, battles are very difficults:
12 rogues can't attack a big stack first, or they will take retaliation and lot of them will die because they don't have huge ammount of hit points.
they are forced to wait for an other unit to attack first (the stacks of 1 rogues are here for that)
when 1 rogues plays before 12 rogues, it's good.
but when 12 rogues plays before 1 rogues, it kills all DE's strategy:
rogues have 14 init, but they don't use it efficiently because 12 rogues are forced to wait for 1 rogues to play and take retaliation.
VS fast ennemies like forest keepers it means 0 attack of 12 rogues before ennemies's turn instead of 1 attack.
VS slow ennemies like zombies it means 1 attack of 12 rogues before ennemies's turn instead of 2 attacks.
you lose 1 attack of your bigger stack in each situation, and you deal something like 80-100 less damages at the first combat turn because of this attack loss.
rogues are the best way to deal great damages with DE:
poisoners are ridiculous shooters, they are good only for poisoning, but it don't works against necros or wizards (gargoyles, golems)
minos have lots of HP, but they are slow and don't deal great damages
lizards could deal good damages with lizard charge... but they are not enough to deal huge damages (only 6 lizards at level5)
even with max charge (oppent's defense reduced to zero) they don't deals better damages than rogues. and lizards have weak retaliations (0 tiles covered before retaliation)
it means you really nead rogues to deal max damages in the first turns, before being killed.
if your strong stack of rogues is forced to wait because they plays before stacks of 1 rogues, lots of battles are lost from the beginning. | | depends on what you are, fighter or magic? if you are fighter, then use parameter on attack and make use of your rogues and kill enemy fast, but for magician such as me, i use max minos so i can use magic a lot. if you play magic but max rogues, they will get killed easily without deal much damage. Minos are slow, that is true, but they also have big hp. My strategy using minos is to kill enemy ranged by magic, then wait for them to come close, or you come to them but with split rogues. don't try fight an elf though, its hard in level 5 no arts and no ele call. if you use ele call, full arts, 1 empowered m arrow can kill 10 bowmen, depends on your SP. if elf bowmen died in 1 turn, they become much easier to kill. this can also be used on other faction, but not for demon. they are too strong for level 5-6 i think. | | A thing that strikes me the most as DE is the fact at lvl 6 (Haven't really checked for other lvls) is that we can recruit more tier 3 units (mino's) then tier 1&2 (Bandits/poisoners and rogue's). A might DE is way to dependant on his rogue's for damage and well, we simply have to few off them. | @iron_eagle:
i'm magic dark elf.
i don't play PvP (too hard for level5DE) i'm playing merc quests and hunts, and i wait for level7 or8 to come back to PvP.
My strategy using minos is to kill enemy ranged by magic, then wait for them to come close, or you come to them but with split rogues
it's a strategy for PvP battles.
but in merc quests and hunts, total HP of ennemie's creatures is really too high to kill them with magic.
you can't use defensive stance and kill enemies with hero, you must be offensive, it's the only way to win.
for hunts, you need rogues, minos are useless.
when you fight against 100+ infected zombies, or 60+ tammed minotaurs, you can't count on your magic to kill them. and your 13 minos will be killed very fast by the enemie's units.
magic helps, but the main damages must be dealt by your creatures: you need to kill them as fast as possible before they reach your units.
only 1 solution for it: max rogues, stacks of 1 rogues to take retaliation, and strike and return with stack of 12 rogue (without retaliation)
15 rogues easily deals 500+ damages in a fight: 80+100+90+... (and i have no arts, magic build)
13 minos will never deal 500+damages.
i recruit max rogues when ennemies don't have shooters, max minos when they have shooters (because rogues don't works against shooters, they die too fast)but it's really difficult when i'm forced to bring max minos to battle. | only hunt? then it is depend on what the enemy are. but often i asked for assist when i was lvl5. i myself when level 5 use 11 rogues, 10 mino, max liz, 1 poison, magic DE and talent fortune. that way i make use of both attack and magic. In hunt, monsters usually aim for mino the last one, so even though they are slow they are not targeted, and when they are targeted they already do some damage, and hero can spend all his mana.
to hunt ranged, i blocked them all with small stacks of rogues, while mino make their move. but if you are only hunting and MG, then use recruiting you feel most suited for you, since you can ask 4 assist if the hunt is too hard, or decline the MG.
but remember, your magic is not only m arrow and spikes. delay sometimes useful, but i rarely use curse | yes i use delay sometimes too.
it's really powerful in some situations.
i agree with you for curse: curse is weak.
there is only one battle were i think it might be useful: huge army of knights, when you have 3 attempts to kill lots of units including 50+crossbowmen with 2-8 damages (reduced to 2-5 with curse)
but they still deals too huge damages with curse, i think magic arrow is better. | EARTHEN SPIKE and MAGIC ARROW I think are the best magic for DE ..... They are great with them ... Based on my experiences with those magics, DE can slay necros that almost everyone that play DE says that the NECROS are the hardest enemies to take down ......
Best regards,
Randhy
NB : DE are not underpower, The players with DE just do not know how to play them well ...
Prove : see https://www.lordswm.com/plstats.php and u all can see that 4 DE are on the magnificent 10 ... The most of them are DE ...! That is the fact ..... So do not underestimate their power ....
GBU | | i dont know which to be, a fighter or a use magic, so can anybody help me out | @ 107
lol dont make me laugh, PLAYERS WITH EXPERIENCE/no experience state that DE is underpowered. Just because your too naive and ignorant, you continue to state DE is not underpowered when in fact it is. When your state the proof of, 4 of the top 10 is DE, that does not support your argument in that DE not underpowered, your just stating what people are using.
DE is the class that needs to be buffed because they are indeed underpowered. If you believe that DE is not underpowered and continue to believe they are good, how about you play it yourself. On another note, have you played HOMM5? they are not underpowered there, more so balanced due to playing style and different recruitment counts. That does not justify your statement of DE is not underpowered. Pretty much to conclude, an example of what your doing is. Wow i see minotaur vs Monk. Oh minotaur is balanced with monk even though monk is tier 5 and minotaur is tier 3.
@ RandhyTheKnight i can prove u wrong in soo many ways, so please stop trying to say that DE is not underpowered because it is underpowered. | I think Chaos magic branch talent is quite underpowered compared to the other talents. Even at 9pts per talent for DE (the lowest of all factions), its not a very good powerup for your Chaos spells.
I foresee that Chaos spells wont be used much at higher levels, where everyone's stacks are more in numbers, does more dmg and higher HP etc. Darkness talents would be more useful then.
I propose that Chaos magic to be buffed, so that more dmg to be done with each increasing SP, and lower the base damage of spells.
Or, lower the cost of talents of Chaos for DE to 8pts :D | for RandhyTheKnight:
you should read the post number 86, by aRU
82:
absolutely have power to defeat any Fractions
proof it pls i've seen many DE players without 2nd upg
and they have a lot of problem in lv 5/6 if both side playing well
and, kusika's main is wiz(looking from his faction skill) i guess, and people can change do DE anytime they want.
you want proof from me? i can give you, but as i said, DE is good at low levels.
but not for 5-6(dunno more than that)
https://www.lordswm.com/plstats_hunters.php?level=5&race=0
https://www.lordswm.com/plstats_hunters.php?level=6&race=0
https://www.lordswm.com/plstats_hunters.php?level=7&race=0
explain those three. but ***note*** that level 6-7 who get into the top records are **all** are with diamond upgrade.
NB : DE are not underpower, The players with DE just do not know how to play them well ...
well, then, i'm a noob much much more than you. I'm just a noob and don't know how to play well, and i can only break 5 records in DE(not all factions, please not that). Could you tell me please how to play **well** with DE,
"MR. KNIGHT"? | | I just lvl up to 4th lvl and all i get was one rogue. That's all the bonus i get at my army? | randhy:
pls talk something that u have FACT and u know it EXACTLY
The players with DE just do not know how to play them well ...
so what do u mean play 'well'?
can u explain and proof it?
even the DE players do not know, how can u -as a knight- know? | 112
yes you get only that. but in PvP DE is good at level 3-4, even if it only increase your rogue by 1. | | I must agree with Kiz with chaos magic talents being underpowered/to expensive. All it does on most spells is making the base damage of chaos spells equal to the same spell without talent and one extra spellpower (not taking into account lightning/Ice ring) I really don't get why any race other then DE will ever bother to take basic chaos magic if they aren't planning on getting any of the secondary talents from that ring. better to get basic erudition and spend the extra skillpoint on spellpower strenghtening your other skills. | Hey :) I`ll say that DE is underpowered.
If you take out the shrews there is nothing a meele DE can do at 6-8 lvl, he`ll exchage his lizz with some opponent unit, and minos. Minos are extremly slow at the point of initiative.
Let`s change the point of view. If DE is 5 on morale, and has high initive bonus(Thiefs Set, Thiefs Guild leveled up or some Ini artifacts) he can inflict more dmg than anyone else in meele for one hero turn with his shrews;)
All of this is said about meele builds, with rally, tactics, frenzy or other ability choosen.
At lvl 10+ you have slow hydras(more than 4), some shrews(around 30), some minos(around 20) and almost 18 lizz. But remember if the playa opponent plays in def and let`s you aproach, but you cannot inflict dmg, you`ll miss you lizz of minos that you moved forward and you be stucked up with some shrews and hydras who defacto are deadly but very slow and don`r reach about opponent main units, and most of opponents has shooters in their army, some even two types of. You`ll get killed pretty fast. Fighting a good human or a good necro is the worst you have imagined.
Now let`s look at Mage build. He has the Dark Power, and has the ability to pierce throught magic resisting (though I don`t know how it works when someone has +25 Magic resist and +30 Air resist and you hit him with some Air Magic Spell). You inflict great dmg with your spell`s and must stay alive till you`ll spend all your mana. This is great, ok at least at low lvls, or when in gang-fight`s your team-mates are ready to sacrifice his unit`s to keep you alive in order to win the battle, cause you leak HP and if you remain only with minos you will be erased soon (1-2 rounds).
But let`s see what happens at lvl 10+ every one has at least 40 points to choose his ability, and this is a long run topic, diffrent abilities against diffrent opponents. Now if you wanna be mage at that lvl you have to have at least 15 SP and 6 KN, and you have no meele power at all (everyone around has the 20 def and 20 atack at least), you can ballance it by debuffing, or poisoning but this is two weak, the fight is going to be 5-6 turn`s max, you won`t be able to drain your mana, or to debuff if you don`t have the specialization. Of course you can inflict aprox 300dmg on a 3x3 area with your fireball spell or aprox 450 dmg with lightning one unit (all this with Dark Power). But almost all fighters have elemental resist cloack`s and maybe have dmg reduction crafted in their artifacts. So you`ll get for your lvling just a minor (50%) bonus at magic dmg and hape poor offence, some defence, and only magic abilities. Mages receive some ballance with miniarts for meele and can be great mages with 20+ SP, humans are cheater with great morale def and offence, necros the most cheaters with their liches and zombies :D, demons call`s huge armies and can live for more than a DE if he`s a mage or meele, remains barbarian who has great initiative on hero and his stunning blow has a lot of effect on field. And at least the most cheating race Elfs, their shooters are awesome and with the Unicors around (they give magic resistance) they are almost invincible.
Everything resumes to some numbers how many dmg can you inflict during 1 hero turn and how many turns you can manage to survive (HP points). If someone during one turn manages to make a 1000 dmg like a super luky and moraling human? tell me what will you do against a demon lvl 10+ or a barbarian 10+ ? :) they will devour you in an instant.
DE is underpowered. The fact that DE playas are thery skilled is because the playing tactics is very different from others factions. But more you get leveling up you`ll see that DE live is hard. If you don`t have crafted arts you`ll be loosing a lot till you`ll get bored and switch your faction. | | DE is not underpowered. Check out level 7 DE is powerful, level 3-4 DE is powerful, Shrews and lizards are amazing, and minos have TONS of hp. Even poisoners are good. Why DE underpowered?? You are just complaining. | You cann`t compare lvl 7 with 10. :) Ok how many poisoners/assasins can a DE take even with rally ? And how many imps/spawns can you take, and other factions. OK I admit that DE is very offensive ... but he is easy to kill in 1x1 or in FFA(1x1x1x1). If the opponent is very skilfull then you won`t be able to make a full impact with lizards, and in close range they are they weak. Minos are just tons of raw meat. OK they are hard to kill but on 8+ a meele build don`t take them and mage builds live`s as long minos stay alive.
And take Hydras this the slowest unit of the DE. He is definetly underpowered cause after the first two turns he is out of the game. :) But i`m used to it anyway. In a full set he is very powerful :D | | Take out the shrews and there is no meele DE. Take out minos and the mage DE is done. This is the main conclusion. :) | Hydras aren't usually a first target IMO...and they have 80 hp so they are tougher to kill.
Melee DE? High level no poison, so EVERY unit DE has is melee, besides dark witches. So kill shrews and melee DE is not dead... |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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