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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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lol at Slynky - What Mods v's Juries war?
- The majority of the juries members get on very well with the majority of the moderators.
- This situation has been ongoing since before there even was a juries clan
It has absolutely nothing at all to do with membership of the "juries" clan. Some people getting banned are in this clan, some are in others, some are in no clans. This has no relevance and your 7 posts so far in this thread which say nothing (repeatedly) and try and stir up ill feelings and bad will are not helpful.
Between a few of you, so far you have almost made more posts than everyone else added together and said almost nothing of relevance or on-topic. All you are doing is showing your hatred of others. I would suggest you take a break and read again what you have written but whatever you decide it is up to you.
The reason it is up to you is that for the first time you can safely post in the forums without worrying about having your words deleted on censored by someone who does not agree with you! Now others can see what you have written and make their own opinions of you as a person and on how accurately they think you (or I) have grasped the situation.
The more you carry on, the more obvious it is to everyone how the old system worked. Anyone who stood up to Kotrin and partners just had their posts deleted and received bans while other's of his friends jumped in with "I dont have any personal stake in this but . . ." thus trying to manipulate people perceptions and opinions of a person or group while they were silenced so could not stick up for themselves. These days are past now though as anyone reading here can see.
So feel free to post your replies, if you can it would be nice if you would post some facts though.
______________________________________
I think that Arctic's decision to discuss this publically was a very wise move. For a start it shows that he values "OUR" opinions! Not just a small number of MODs or others who have his ear but each and every player here.
We have all been asking for ages for more interaction between Arctic and us (admins and us most have given up on), reading this thread quickly you may come away thinking it very negative until you look and see those comments are made up of just 4 people!
If Arctic had just removed some of these people behind the scenes that would have had a nig negative impact on everyone. Lies and mis-information on the reasons would have been circulated, no one would know fully what or why was happening and it would cause worry over the servers future.
By making it public and saying why it is being done no one can be in doubt that these changes are to try and remove a problematic part of the game and improve it for everyone.
Yes there will be things which Arctic needs to do to keep things improving but he has said he will spend more time here and we need to trust him on this. We also need to offer him help and support (he is just 1 person!), and try to avoid being negative or try and sabotage things as some form of revenge for lack of any "groups power".
Anyway, everyone will be able to make up their own minds for once as they can see all sides of the situation but I applaud everyone who tries to improve things! | the old wounds from the interminable Mods vs Juries war have been reopened
What are you talking about? I am unaware of any sort of dispute between Mods and Juries. Dont make this into something that it is not. The fact that there are issues between some Mods and some on juries has nothing to do with the clans themselves.
In my opinion the forum is intimidating for newbies, rather than a fun place to post, and that is not the way it should be.
I have seen harsh comments from Mods regarding issues that newbies bring up because the Mods have dealt with the same issues many times. But thats their job and the newbies are by definition new, and thus unaware of previous posts about the same issues. And forum search is useless.
Arctic, please close this thread.
Solve problems by pm, not in public.
This is not the way.
Some things cant be solved through PM, not sure if anything can be solved here either but at some point clearing the air in itself can be helpful if nothing else is able to be accomplished. | Well the mods are guilty of abusing their powers, and the players are guilty of pushing the limits of the rule breaking.
By putting a few arrows in a forum... hahaha simply laughable. | 81
said almost nothing of relevance or on-topic
lol
I count exactly 1 post here OT (not mine, and not yours) that is <2% :D
Note: for those who don't remember the topic try reread post number 1 and not only the title. | for Elven_Lord:
I see you understand what you want to understand, but thats also Human Nature, can't change what people really wanna hear and want to ignore.
And I havent also said : Since the beginning of the game (No I didnt said such) | Addition to my post in #57 (read it for the full version if you want to). I only quote some part of it.
2. Similar to #1, Moderator make a post in forum and then Ban himself.
...
You should not playing around with the Ban power like this. You make the BAN (which should serve as a punishment) as a joke, And then you wonder, why some players keep violating forum rules. I really hope this case won't happen again in the future
And I want to suggest something to Mods.
1. When you BAN a player, I think it will be better to state the violated rule (not your personal comments) whenever possible.
eg: I made a post, and I was banned.
Instead of the BAN message like this :
[Player banned by moderator xxx until 2010-01-01 01:01:01 // I've already warned you... relapse]
I think it will be better if you put it this way
[Player banned by moderator xxx until 2010-01-01 01:01:01 // violating Complaints and applications Forum rule #1]
The best way of course is to include the link to the exact rule, but I am aware that there is a limitation on how many characters can be written in the ban message. But maybe you can put a link to the exact rule somewhere in the topic and refer the Ban to the post.
2. I saw some specific Mods like to make a 'hostile' or 'unfriendly' message in forum. I am not going to give the name here. But please refrain yourself from doing that. I know that some players can really make your nerve break. But remember, you are a Moderator. And there is a rule in General Game Rule
3.3. It is forbidden to insult and/or humiliate players directly through communication media (forum, chat, mail etc.) or in combat.
You should be an example to other players. And not breaking the rule yourself (something that you should protect and guard)
Again, please keep in mind that I am not posting this to personally attack mods on doing their job, nor that I feel like I am better than you. I make this post to contribute to make this community better.. because I care. | @81 & 82
I apologize if I am mis-characterizing the ongoing situation between some of the mods and some of the jurists. That was an overly broad generalization on my part, but to many outsiders, that's exactly how it appeared. We saw mods banning jurists, we saw jurists insulting mods in their profiles, then some clanmates on each side got involved and the vitriol grew. Perhaps it didn't go down exactly like this, but this is the impression that I, and I'm certain others, got from viewing from the outside.
But now, DEATHisNEAR, you are making broad generalizations as well. You claim that my posts, as well as many others are irrelevant and off-topic. You claim that I am showing my hatred of others.
I may be stretching the definitions of on-topic with my postings, and I admitted as much, but so be it. I have NEVER shied away from posting my thoughts before. See some of my rants in the workaholic threads. If I get banned, so be it. Fear of bans hasn't stopped me yet and it certainly will not now.
I am showing hatred toward no one. What I am showing is my growing displeasure at a very poor job by Arctic, the Moderators involved, and the Jurists involved for allowing a petty, childish dispute be aired out in public, thus undermining the confidence of the community you are charged with supporting in your ability to do so. If you cannot work out these mundane personality conflicts amongst yourselves, how on earth can you tackle the challenges of maintaining a fair and open community for your users?
As for re-reading my posts, I have done so a few times today. Minus the couple corrections I have publicly posted, I stand by the opinions I have put forth. As they are opinions, there is no need to back them with facts. They are intended to be my thoughts and feelings regarding the situation at hand and how horribly poorly it has been handled. Also, as it is only an opinion, you are free to agree or disagree. My feelings on the matter are, fortunately, not contingent upon your feelings either way. | | Wow, we definitely need moderators around. Oh wait... | LOL @ Kotrin... if you think we need moderators now, it's a good thing I didn't post my true, uncensored thoughts about some of those involved here ;-)
Nonetheless, I keep expecting Sven, Pang, or Arctic to nail me with the ban hammer any moment. | for Slynky:
I have one, lucky for you, it has no power in the forums, I would have head smacked you across the face with it and for a lifetime ban, boom :)
Ok, enough off-topic. | LOL @ Dan-Panic
Actually, this exchange makes a very nice example of how things could be better from a moderation standpoint. Without inflicting a ban, and with a sense of humor, I was let know that perhaps I was approaching a line in the sand that I should not cross. I do not need to know why, or exactly where the line is, in detailed written format, I just know that I should not push further or a ban may ensue. I've seen several forums where moderation is approached in this manner and it is usually well received.
There, that's my positive contribution to this thread for those that claimed I was only being negative. | for Slynky:
You could at least made it : Our contribution : greedy one :) | #91
I told Pang he needed a sense of humor, and then Kotrin banned me lol. I agree, Mods need to be humans...and try their best to be partial and understanding. But some people are be incapable of that, and should thus not have those positions to begin with (not saying any names on who often behaves like a drone) ^^ | Pang gave me a 4 days long ban (FOUR days, if not more) for having posted an off-topic comment in the financial forum.
Quite a few people need to understand that C&A financial section was supposed to be the most strict section of forum. Used only to provide proofs of cheating and leaving the cases for administration to consider. | I told Pang he needed a sense of humor, and then Kotrin banned me lol. I agree, Mods need to be humans...and try their best to be partial and understanding.
You ask mods to get a sense of humour and be humans
Then you want them to always use the same exact variations in the rules day by day ?
So on one side you ask them to be humans, then to be robots ?
Theres something I have missed somewhere. | 1. Moderator make a post in forum, and then realize that he makes mistake and then DELETE his post with comments such as : "my mistake" or something like that.
Take queries and help. Every wrong or retarded answer is better deleted. While the nice people leaving these answers might be offended by their deletion, mod knows he cannot be offended by his own actions, so he just deletes the mess to clarify. Same goes for posts breaking the rules.
2. Similar to #1, Moderator make a post in forum and then Ban himself.
This goes ussually other way around. Mods is contacted by a victim saying that he offended him and broke rule. He has 2 choices: 1.Contact his superior, 2.Ban himself like anyone else. | It may even be too late...so many people stopped coming/reading in account of Kotrin...
This made my BS-radar ring pretty soo much. This whole arrows mess is a great joke anyway. And would you mind leaving Shebali out of this when you come to insulting and calling mods whatever?
I managed to find a reference to Faithbringer case:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1871672
There were similar flames rushing around Kotrin and others. Always quite the same idea, but nevermind, this forum will be so much fun without the most active mods..
These are my 3 favourite topics showing our situation at this server. Reading them was the moment I told my self. "What the frog?? Lets go offline.."
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1873867
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876537
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876552 | This made my BS-radar ring pretty soo much.
hmm, scratch the "soo", it doesnt belong there apparently.
Limustu the fact that someone doesnt speak english perfectly doesnt mean his opinion should not be considered because he is too young or too dumb. It could mean that if he was from an english speaking country, but whole world doesnt speak english yet. :-) | #95
Forgive my native English if things aren't written formally enough for them to be translated on the internet...but I nowhere wrote asking people to be robots...quite the contrary. I have ALWAYS advocated AGAINST robots (or droids as I have also called some). Check your history...also, being consistent, has nothing to do with being a square. Even a circle is consistent...
Omega22:
I think you read over too hastily some of my posts...if you re-read them carefully...I think you'll understand your BS radar is quite off (for starters) and "soo" isn't the only thing that doesn't belong in your post regarding this matter :) | for limustudotcom:
Being day by day consistent in the decisions is calling for being a droid. Tell me if everyday you have the exact same mood and think the same way, being more or less optimistic or pessimistic, more or less impatient or patient, more or less annoyed by your surroundings. If you do, well you are humans, if you are not, then I think you are more towards the droid !
Its human nature to have different states of mind and emotions day by day, and yes, even if you are the most consistent possible, people will see a difference. |
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