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| Author | To all people who monopolize artifact etc Defender Shield... |
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| The only Monopolizer, her name is Empire. | | Alright then, you seem to have your goal. I will happily not join and wait until you raise the price(which is not possible I think), when you do, I will sell the shields for 2 gold less than your official price, ok? | guys please read rule number 3.9 and 3.13
you cannot use add chars to do that sort of thing
And to the profit making,I say a yes
tell me when you are ready | Demonic666
I have raised this issue before, but from a slightly different tangent.
I would firstly recommend caution Demonic666, why?
You will find most of your critics here are ones that actually exploit this problem. And I'd be careful if I were you. Some of your critics will taunt, mock and belittle you in their attempt to diminish your argument (ie play the player, not the ball). Be careful in your responses, as some of them may "report your conduct" on exaggerated charges. This is what happened to me when I raised the issue.
There is no problem with profit at the market. There is a problem with hoarding. People will buy certain resources and artifacts from the factories with no intent to use them, but with intent to deplete stock at the factory, and with stock depleted charge a much higher price at the market. As there is no stock at the factory to help regulate prices at the market, goods sell for a lot higher price at the market. Rings of Morale from the Factory of Inspiration are a good example.
An effective long term solution to this problem is to establish new factories for goods in high demand or which suffer shortages, or increase the workforce capacity at the factories where there are shortages.
And as I said before and looking through all the responses, just about every complaint of the issue you raised comes from the very people exploiting the issue or who have a vested interest with someone else exploiting the issue.
These players will claim that profit from the market is paltry eg 50 gold or 3-5% etc etc etc. But please remember that unlike real life there are not many overheads with this arrangement ie only the sales commission. Hoarders in Lordswm don't have to worry about rent, staff wages, taxes or other costs to their business. A mere 50gold or 3%-5% profit margin actually becomes a very good thing.
Cheers | ravensclaw, did you forget what happened when people started hoarding resources a few months ago?
If not, i remind you: there were complains on this very forum, facilities begun to run out of the necessary resources to work, then admins started to refill mines manually.
If your hoarding kills the game (or goes in that direction, as it did at the time), consider it a fail before you start..
It is possible to do very good profits in the market, working out different solutions that do not interfere with gameplay.
I let the expert debate about this if they care,as for me, what i learned is that if you got a piece of gold and somebody asks where you found it, the best answer will always be "south of the north pole, north of the south pole".. ;) | Keep in mind that when you do this, a lot of player who can't buy Defender shield from factories will feel angry.
Eventhough you can set agreement with some players about standard price, you can not control players outside your clan.
How can you stop someone who is willing to sell for less than your standard price?
eg: you set 3500 golds for defender shield. And someone said he wants to help players to get defender shield with cheaper price (let's say 3400). Your standard price will be useless, and you will not be able to sell anything.
Or, let's say that your plan works. There is a crisis of defender shield. And then Admin decides to make another factories (like what happened with Mercury before). My question is: what will happen to your clan? | Ravensclan I dont quite understand what you are trying to warn this guy about. As I understood he doesnt want to solve the problem, he wants to make it worse so he and his fellow traders would profit. We are all trying to say, as far as I know, that this is not possible. At least not with the shop arts definately. And any artificial shortage is just temporary and the small profit would be divided between 50 traders anyway.
About the hoarding as we call it..I really dont think anyone is able to do it with ordinary artifacts. With resources MAYBE(I dont think so but maybe) but with arts...only thing that can change the market price of defender shields, rings of insp., etc. is supply/demand. Supply can only be change by admin intervention, and demand by radical change in number of players(mostly event, rule changes- again admins intervention.)
mihira I have read the rules, but I didnt see how can buying and discarding defender shields be penalised as financial assistance. There is no way to prove why are you buying those shields, you are not sending money, and there is no way to notice that in your transfer log. But its a hard way, I am not going into this. If I had to waste 15 minutes every hour for gold earning purpose, it would be nickel factory at east bay - safe and clear. | eg: you set 3500 golds for defender shield. And someone said he wants to help players to get defender shield with cheaper price (let's say 3400). Your standard price will be useless, and you will not be able to sell anything.
Answer: You will be forced to choose between 2 options. Sell for 3395 or get stuck with 30 defender shields in inventory and wait for the miracle. This way any hoarding stops. You have 30 defender shields, you can stick them in your *lower back*, you are out of bussiness, you dont sell anything, you dont buy anything, you have no influence. When money stops flowing you are not a trader anymore. | You talk about doing it for Defender Shields, but once you're successful we'll have groups doing it for everything. Pretty soon, there won't be any purchasable equipment at all, because people will be hoarding the raw materials too much. Characters at levels 5-6 will be unplayable unless you're part of one of the hoarding groups.
You may think that this gives people no choice, they'll have to buy from you or one of the other hoarding groups. You are wrong.
They will leave.
I don't mind people making a few bucks buying quick and selling at the market. But if I were an admin, and I saw people hoarding for the long term to massively jack up prices as a monopoly, those characters wouldn't exist for very long. Because if I let you get away with it, this game wouldn't exist for very long. | Well, seems like a lot people think that I'm trying to hoarding the resources... Mark up the price... make the cost goes up... Well... I want to make my stand clear is... the purpose of setting a standard price, yes is to benefits the sellers but by the same time it also use to limit the seller not to over set of the price. Whereas hoarding is not allow to happen if you're in the clan. I believe everyone who play this game is also a seller right. Thus, this benefits everybody. The purpose of setting up a clan is to make sure everyone who join the clan follow the rules and regulation. I said as well, these thing is big, and under current free economic (not so maybe : p), this is big man. More field need to be consider and solve.
There are few solution we can try for some issues which raised
*Shortage of artifact, clan will provide the stock to those needs but just for those who join the clan, if they face the problem of buying.
*Problem which raise by Omega22 where indigenous group (maybe it'll be indigenous) who don't follow the s.price, As you know the items we got are from the factory, and thus, if indigenous people they are not following the s.price, the stock on their hand is going to run out, they need to buy. But, compare with us, "if" we have more members, they have more ability to take over the item compare with these indigenous people. thus, people who're in our clan must follow the s.price.
Thanks guys... Ur responses is valuable^^
especially for Ravensclaw, thanks for your concern... I'll take my step carefully. Btw, people always come out many ideas to get more they want^^ | | demonic666
With respect please consider the following (now that I understand your initial complaint a little better)
1. If you have a fixed price for items at the market, why have a lower fixed price at the factory? This would make the hoarding problem worse especially if the hoarders could get the stock levels at the factory down to zero.
2. Sometimes people need to sell items at the market at below cost because they have a cashflow problem. If prices at the market are fixed for everyone, the seller cannot quickly resolve their cashflow problem.
3. There are ways to make money at the market without resorting to hoarding or fixing prices. Enchanting is a good example. you can also earn income from selling mined goods to factories.
4. Lack of supply and extortive price fixing ruin the fun for the vast majority of players. And from my example in my previous post, those condoning exploiting the stock shortages can only gain temporarily. If such a system were to run rampant, even they would be shooting themselves in the foot.
5. When there is a lack of supply and hoarding, the best solution is to progressively improve supply until an equilibrium between supply and demand is reached.
6. Having too great a supply has its problems too. Rather than hoarding you get dumping, or a reluctance to sell to the market at below cost; and when that happens rather than having the convenience of the market, people will have to travel to factory to buy.
Cheers | Oh
And for the record, I do not condone Guilds being formed for the purpose of forming a Cartel. But that is just my opinion.
Cheers | 5. When there is a lack of supply and hoarding, the best solution is to progressively improve supply until an equilibrium between supply and demand is reached.
...which is nearly impossible to happen without help from the admin to increase the free posts on factory or raise the number of def shield. | At the moment, a player can get defender shields rather easily from the factory. Paying a small premium for a shield in the market isn't a problem too. The extra 50-70 gold per shield only costs 1-2 gold per battle.
The only art which is not on an equilibrium is ring of inspiration. The production is so inadequately small for so many players using it. I wonder why the admins won't increase the number of free posts for it, as it is done for the shields. | Iron_eagle and Kiz
Improving supply can be done a few ways. One is increasing workforce, another is introducing more factories, a third is a manual topup by administrators.
I prefer options 1 or 2.
And Kiz, those "small" premiums will become larger, don't you doubt.
Cheers | | Well... Adam Smith's Theory... Market will manage themselves- -" | One is increasing workforce, another is introducing more factories, a third is a manual topup by administrators.
I don't really understand workforce, but if you mean free posts, then can we increase that ourselves? can we introduce more factories? Both also can be done by admin, right?
except that workforce means LG, ok that we can raise it ourselves, but still won't be enough i think | 4. Lack of supply and extortive price fixing ruin the fun for the vast majority of players. And from my example in my previous post, those condoning exploiting the stock shortages can only gain temporarily. If such a system were to run rampant, even they would be shooting themselves in the foot.
I agree. But once more, I dont think such shortage can be cause by actions of a player/ few players. It is mainly caused by actions/ lack of actions from administration. Of course there will be ones that make it worse by buying, keeping and then reselling the stuff, but they have as much power as the minority of the ones like you Ravensclaw, who in the times of shortage enroll themselves at the lab to improve the situation. Blaming fusei for having 1000 mercury is unnecessary, as well as her pretending to "help the customers" and "offering service".
Everyone I know to be active at the market is a freelancer. Individuals have much greater income than any group. At least yet it seems like everyone for him/herself on the market. | Wow, defender shields 60 gold over facility price at market... What a scandal!
You folks have definitely too much time. ^^
But I'm a friendly guy, who wants to you to save time. The first 3 people out of this thread who write "I love to buy defender shields at market" get each 60 gold from me. :D
Do something good with your saved time: Plant a tree, caress your cat, call your mom. :P |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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