| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
|---|
@580 it was posted to this site, which means that the rules should apply to it.
@577. There's a difference of opinion. There's one side that says it's a Kotrin witch hunt, there's another side that says Kotrin had a personal gripe against some players and in the absense of a stronger admin presence used his powers incorrectly. I think that everyone who has read to this point has established there position one way or the other and wont change it.
@578. Myself and Grunge have commented on that. |
@580 it was posted to this site, which means that the rules should apply to it.
Interesting concept. I'm sure you'll provide us a quote from game rules backing it up. |
There's an interesting thing about Kotrin's link to the external website (which of course is only open to WG members to comment in, after all, we wouldn't want anyone else murking it up with inconvenient facts that might mess up the story, now would we?).
It makes an important assumption for the entire "story" to work as intended.
The assumption is of course that the warnings and other penalties applied by Kotrin are in any way justified. Sure he can quote a rule number, but that doesn't make it correct to apply the penalty.
I have previously provided links to early threads with titles that would likely have been penalised by Kotrin or under Sven91's new "Rule"(see my post # 228). The Admins were very present in these early days, and there were even Mods active at this time. None penalised players for their Topic Titles that I am aware of (see this thread for an example of early Mod activity in G&C - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1832928). Yet none of them seemed to be particularly concerned regarding adorned Topic Titles (except perhaps for those that were all caps?). Time passed and then in December 2009 Kotrin applied his first warning for a Topic Title "offence".
I've asked Kotrin many times what prompted the decision to apply penalties in G&C (see posts # 231 to 240, #269, #287, and #298) and I've never received a satisfactory reply. Others have *speculated* as to why the penalties were applied, but no other Mod seemed to have been aware of a decision to start enforcing Forum Rule 4.2 in this way. By implication it would seem that the decision was made by Kotrin without consultation with any other Mod.
Another question to ask is why were these penalties only levied in the G&C Forum. I would have thought that a more obvious place to check for illegal Thread Titles is somewhere like the Trades and Services area of the Forum. After all, advertising things you have to sell is important and having an "eye-catching" Topic Title would help sell your goods and services. Despite Kotrin having decided that excessive Topic Titles was an issue, he was apparently unable to notice excessive Topic Titles in the Trades and Services forum? And this in spite of being the only active Mod most of the time?
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877283
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877152
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877074
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876779
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876142
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1873362
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1870614
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1870117
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1866488
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1865037
That's at least 10 T&S threads that pre-dated the "Polygon" thread with "excessive" Titles. I can assure you that there are plenty more. And apparently Kotrin never noticed them, over a period of time spanning almost 4 months? I find that hard to believe, especially for the the only active Mod most of the time. And yet I haven't seen any warnings/penalties applied for Topic Title "decorations" in any of them.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1871343
Now the above is an interesting thread. It's one of the threads penalised by Faithbringer for Forum Rule 4.3 "violations". What's most interesting about this thread, is that Faithbringer didn't seem to notice the Topic Title "infringement" present. If it had been in G&C I'm sure Kotrin wouldn't have missed it.
So why was Kotrin so focused on the G&C Forum for Topic Titles infringments? I believe the reason is simple - the targets he was hoping to hit were well known for posting in G&C. He didn't care so much for T&S because none of players he wanted to penalise posted there |
So why was Kotrin so focused on the G&C Forum for Topic Titles infringments? I believe the reason is simple - the targets he was hoping to hit were well known for posting in G&C. He didn't care so much for T&S because none of players he wanted to penalise posted there with any great frequency.
Now, look again at Kotrins external Link. How does the "story" read if you replace the "Hero" of the piece with a Moderator who innappropriately used his position to target players he didn't like. And the "Villain" of this "story" is replaced with a player simply concerned with abuse of Moderator powers?
The basic elements remain the same, but the "story" ends quite differently IMO.
Grunge |
@ 583-584
Short answer:
Main forums are being Moderated more heavily. |
for Erekose:
+1 |
Kotrin quoted Fishy
"@580 it was posted to this site, which means that the rules should apply to it."
Kotrin's reply "Interesting concept. I'm sure you'll provide us a quote from game rules backing it up. "
I think 2.1 would cover it, but lets have a hypothetical just to make it clearer. If I photoshopped someones avatar so it was doing grossly inappropriate things and posted it, I would get a ban. Instead if I posted a like to a jpg on image shack it would be O.K.? How about links to porn?
I think that any application of a modicum of intellect shows that if you post a link you are responsible for what is in that link, within reason. |
| ...That's what is called a straw man argument. |
No, really. If you were looking for a place where people were more likely to be adorning their Topic Titles, isn't Trades and Services the obvious place to look?
And Faithbringer, another Mod, didnt seem to have any difficulty finding posts to penalise under Forum Rule 4.3 in T&S.
Since I've been inclined to think about elaborate topic titles, those in Trades and Services really do jump out, especially with multiple forums headings available.
And the only active Mod most of the time didn't notice anything, even with 4 more months? Perhaps it;s a good thing we are getting new Mods. Some of the old ones don't seem to be very good at noticing the very "infringements" that they find so concerning.
Grunge |
@ 589
About https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1871343
9 posts within 24 hours (with one posted 1 minute after the previous one) seems a bit excessive, don't you think?
And once again:
Short answer:
Main forums are being Moderated more heavily.
That doesn't mean secondary forums are not moderated at all. |
So why didn't he notice the Topic Title infringement?
Is it perhaps because there wasn't one? Because the other Topic Title infringments were "manufactured" by Kotrin, rather than real infringements?
Grunge |
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1857168
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1859767
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1859766
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1858141
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1859040
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1856686
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1855758
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1855338
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1854969
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1854409
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1853957
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1851743
Kotrin wasnt the first one to start banning people that use long strings in topic titles. But weird, why have you never complained about those before?
Looking at your activity in this topic in off game forum, you don't lack time to do so.
And whats the purpose of attacking Kotrin over and over? He is no longer a mod. Soon there will come many new moderators that you can attack, be patient :) |
Lets see. QaH thread, QaH thread. Gee they're all QaH thread topics.
I guess they were penalised because of the QaH Forum Local Rule 2.
2. The topic header should briefly reflect the main point. Those consisting only of special symbols or letters are forbidden. In case of decorating or marking out the topic by symbols or caps - your character'll be adorned by a long ban.
No such Local Rule in G&C.
Try again?
Grunge |
Opposing moderators "JUST" for the sake of opposing . . . that's the only thing that I've been able to see since the last few non-mod posts.
I am quiet sure (and I think everyone else also is) that mods are "HUMANS" and not "BOTS" that can identify 100/100 rule breaking post done on EACH section of the forum.
But still I can see mods identifying around 95/100 rule breaking posts. Which is quiet appreciated.
So I can't be opposing/criticizing the mods for missing out those 5 posts.
This is just an example, might not be exactly on topic, but does relate to the "SO CALLED" war going on between some "Anti-Mod" players and the "Mods". |
@Grunge: you took two days to digest the whole story you accused me to hide over twenty pages. And that's all you've found to protest next? That's your next angle of attack? The rule in question is 4.2, you could have figured that out yourself, it has been mentioned plenty of times already. And I ask you the same question that Sven did: what do you expect from an ex-mod anyway?
@Barbarian-Fishy: please, make a website, create a page telling how evil I am (don't forget to include juicy - and genuine - conversation we may have had, by the way). Please do, it will entertain us a lot. Or perhaps you won't? After all, perhaps you would just use this web page to place photoshopped avatar of someone so it looks grossly inappropriate things and perhaps you would get a ban. Or perhaps you would post a link to a jpg on image shack that is not O.K.. Or perhaps links to porn.
On a second though, don't make such a website. You might break your own interpretation of rules.
@Sven: Thanks for pointing that out. This witch hunt borders to a disaster, but not for me :)
Please go on people, 30 pages already, I'm sure we can get to 100. |
Heh. Both Kotrin and SVen91 as ex-Mods should be well aware of the QaH Local Rule 2.
So I find it disingenuous that they both attempt to pretend that there is a "history" of Topic Title breaches under Forum Rule 4.2, when they *know* the QaH penalties are sourced from another *real* rule.
Tsk Tsk. Very bad for the image that ex-Mods attempt such blatantly obvious deceptive behaviour.
Grunge
Kotrin wasnt the first one to start banning people that use long strings in topic titles. But weird, why have you never complained about those before?
@Sven: Thanks for pointing that out. This witch hunt borders to a disaster, but not for me :) |
O.o looks like Grunge is really bored now...
He's picking at straws :D |
Since most people have any form of common sense it was hard to find any examples at all of many strings in any forum part besides from Queries and Help.
But at special request of Grunge I tried to find some:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1837850
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1847656
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1854699
All I can say is that I hope Grunge will never become a mod or any other official position. That would be a drama... |
Since we play the "quote rules" game again,
2.3. The users are recommended to create messages with a header that most fully illustrates its content.
4.2. It is forbidden to post messages preventing the users from comfortable reading the content. As an example, posting messages with an extremely large amount of characters without spaces will result in warping the forum structure and hence is prohibited.
And they are universal forum rules, though poorly explained. Especially 2.3 which seems more like a recommendation than a rule but is still located in forum rules!
And even when a public clarification of rules was made after your requests for a particular matter:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1879633
you went against it talking about made up rules. I find that confusing... |
| Sorry for double posting, just a clarification to avoid any misunderstanding. "Your" is used in the plural in my post. Nothing personal with you Grunge :) |
