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| Author | May 21, 2011-End Of The World? |
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imple yes - no question Modi. If the American Indians rose up and took over your land and expelled lots of you to Canada and made the ones who were left in the USA give up their houses and move to ghettos, would you fight back with whatever means available, or would you just meekly accept that the people with the better claim to the land had taken it back?
You don't get to skip over all the previous posts son. Answer them all or don't expect one from me. | It was a struggle and I was really getting to the TL:DR point, but I'll try again. Blah blah, persecuted, blah blah, victim, blah blah, you Aussies are bad too, blah blah, America is good, blah blah, UN is a joke.
I already acknowledged that Aussies did bad things. 'We shafted the Aborigines" I think was the term I used, so it seems you are the one who is skipping posts. I'm not the one trying to demonise the people who want their home back, you are. I'm not the one trying to claim a moral high ground when I'm supporting the conquerer, you are.
I agree the UN is a joke at action. It's only as strong as the member countries allow it to be and one of the big 5 will always have some self interest that will undermine it. They are great at reporting what is going on, as they watch it and don't act on it all the time.
So any answer forthcoming to 440 or should I put it in the pile of questions the Liberal Modi doesn't answer. Liberal means not having to say you were wrong, doesn't it, thus the title. I'm waiting for the admittance that those right wing dunderheads missed seeing threats. Rumsfeld not only missed that Hussein and Osama were threats, he actually helped them out. | for Barbarian-Fishy:
Let me tell you why Jews can self-govern. While your ancestors were still in the forests and not even knowing the virtues of a daily bath, mine were already into self-criticism as you can read in the Hebrew Bible.
So to us, you are a child in diapers. Sorry but thats just the way it is. Maybe in 1000 years or so, you can catch up but I doubt there will be that much time.
Now to answer your question. Our culture is BETTER than the one we conquered. Australia's culture is BETTER than the one you conquered. Israel's culture is BETTER than the one they conquered. Too truthful for your eyes?
Take India and Pakistan. CLEARLY, clearly India has the superior culture and if you can't see that, you are just not able to grasp reality.
I support any superior culture/government that brings a better life to the rest of the world. You could only dream of equaling what Israel is bringing to the table, yet you wish to endanger and disrupt that system for a barbaric one that only knows how to destroy. Plain enough?
And I don't apologize for my views either...because they happen to be right. | for Barbarian-Fishy:
And to prove my point, let us review what happened in Gaza after the Jews left. They left a billion dollar agriculture business behind, paid for by donations(mostly from those evil Jews)and what did the Palis do? They destroyed them all and all synagogues and formerly Jewish-owned businesses. Now they cry, " we are starving.The Jews, the Jews."
HOGWASH! Now unlock your wallet and donate to Gaza, Fishy. Or don't you have that much conviction in your evolved self?
NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.
American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.
Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.
“We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, formerly the largest Jewish settlement in Gaza. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9331863/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/looters-strip-gaza-greenho uses/ | I accept that the strongest, not necessarily the best cultures have survived. The cultures that are weak die out. A sort of social evolution. Does that means that any Palestinians who believes his culture is the better culture has the moral right to resist and fight back?
I'm not asking you to agree his culture is better, but if he thinks it is, doesn't he not only have a moral right, but a moral obligation to protect it or try to recover it, just as the Jews have recovered Israel?
I have always wondered about people taking credit for great ancestors. Anyone who says "I have royalty in my blood" when they are at a similar social level as myself, I think, "so you started from this really high place, and you've descended to this level now, your ancestors must suck". I guess it works with cultures. How much must your culture suck if it stagnated for so long and everyone else caught up?
If I am a child in diapers, I guess you must be that enfeebled old man who is in an adult diaper and lost all his vigor decades ago to go with the analogy. | I'm not asking you to agree his culture is better, but if he thinks it is, doesn't he not only have a moral right, but a moral obligation to protect it or try to recover it, just as the Jews have recovered Israel?
Post 444 is my answer. It isn't even something worthy of debate, so outrageous is the difference between cultures. | I love post # 441. Especially since I have posted something very relevant previously.
So I take you *still* can't refute the Genesis contradiction?
Care to explain?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus (Historicity Debate)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_contradictions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_criticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history (Challenges to Historicity)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Bible
But of course Modi will not explain. Because providing an explanation only provides additional opportunities to find an ever increasing multitude of problems. That's why religious groups are more focused on attacking and not providing convincing evidence. Why not give *us* some answers Modi?
So we have to constantly give you explanations while you consistently fail to address those directed to you? And you *demand* these answers while absolutely *refusing* to do so yourself?
Answer them all or don't expect one from me.
I think your rage is showing because your favorite "self-defense" argument was so easily refuted.
Grunge | for Grunge:
I place as much concern over your "questions" as I do about your concern over Israel, which is to say...none at all.
What I do enjoy is that at the end of the day, Israel controls Jerusalem and there isn't a thing you can do about it but grit your teeth.
If only you would place as much concern over your own "palis" in Australia and do something for them. Oh that would mean actually backing up your position with action. We all know that isn't going to happen.
Maybe you could join the Palis in their next incursion across the border, or even hop a ride on the next flotilla. They always need new bodies there. I'm sure the IDF would love to greet you :P | I imagine its hard to be backing the Palis these days. Sort of like the lawyers who defended OJ Simpson.
We all knew he was guilty but all pretended he wasn't so the natives wouldn't burn down the cities as they threatened to do.
The only difference between you and the defense lawyers is that they were getting paid to back a murderer and you do it for free.
There's a sucker born every minute. | Modi, I hate to tell you this, but the only people that care about who holds the city of Jerusalem are those that follow the Abrahamic Religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_Religions).
I don't believe in any of the Abrahamic Religions (or any other for that matter), so I really could care less who holds Jerusalem.
You are just accustomed to your favourite opponents also wanting to hold Jerusalem solely so it can be denied to followers of Judaism and therefore render the Jewish and Christian "prophecies" invalid. I don't believe in any of this prophecy garbage, so who holds Jerusalem is not an issue that matters to me.
In fact, I would probably go so far as to suggest, if the Palestinians were inclined to give up their claim on Jerusalem, maybe they could negotiate the return of their other stolen lands and also the right to undertake endeavours that they are currently denied, like the capacity to fish in their local waters and import building materials such as concrete to help reconstruct their devastated infrastructure.
However too much of the focus of the Israel-Palestine conflict is really over who holds Jerusalem. Some want it to fulfill their religious "destiny", others want it to deny the same "destiny" to others. As long as religion holds sway in the region, I have no doubt that the conflict will continue.
Sort of like the lawyers who defended OJ Simpson.
We all knew he was guilty but all pretended he wasn't so the natives wouldn't burn down the cities as they threatened to do.
So let's see, religious fundamentalist, creationist and obviously high levels of hypocrisy. Well there are plenty of people like that around. But now, it seems that you have no hesitation in showing your racist tendencies? Have you no shame?
Grunge | But now, it seems that you have no hesitation in showing your racist tendencies? Have you no shame?
You calling me a racist is like winning an award! Thanks man! But I wonder why it is you were so insistent on discussing the Pali situation as soon as you found out I was Jewish if it doesn't matter to you?
I think I know the answer. Like other leftists, you may be taking the opposite side of an argument for the sole reason that the right holds it dear.
Pretty hard to defend childrens shows that recite verses calling for the murder of all Jews, or having Mickey Mouse murdered by Israelis, I know, but you're doing quite a good job I'd say.
No the only thing shameful I see is you and your pal, somehow overlooking the murders, honor killings, and gang rapes so prevalent in Palestine. Shameful? Why yes it is.
The best part of all this is that readers can learn things they didn't know before. I mean, who in their right mind would watch those childrens shows and say " yeah, those guys sure are ready for peace."
Congratz, somehow you managed it. | And again, you automatically assumed that I was thinking race when you were talking about all things "Jewish", but I was talking about religion. In fact the whole premise of our previous discussions was that you were presenting *religious* prophecies to me (which was why you were so concerned about me "recognizing" the age of the Old Testament) just like you started doing in this thread.
It didn't even occur to me that you meant "ethnically" Jewish and I assumed your were talking from a position of being religiously Jewish. This is why I was talking about Judaism, rather than the Jewish ethnicity. I would be happy to post some of our previous discussions on this matter, if you would agree, which make this obvious (forum rule 2.8 don't you know).
I doubt anyone would disagree that when talking about the religion of Judaism an obvious segue is to the issue of Israel.
Just because you want everyone talking about the Jews to be talking about Jewish "Ethnicity" so that you can personally take offense (in your "King of Hate" persona - oh right you deleted it from your profile). Sorry, some people don't care about race, but *are* concerned with religion.
I've told you before, one of my favourite authors and biggest influences when I was growing up was Isaac Asimov who was ethnically Jewish. It would be kind of strange to have a racist inclination against one of the biggest of my life's influences. I also have great respect for other great people of Jewish ancestry, like Einstein (which is why I was well aware of Syrian's lame attempts to take Einstein's beliefs out of context).
Also, not being in favour of Israel does not automatically mean being racist against the Jewish ethnicity, which is something that you like to imply. Otherwise there are plenty of people who are of Jewish ethnicity that, according to you, would be racist against themselves (like Asimov and Einstein).
http://www.archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948 or http://www.rense.com/general27/let.htm (most readable)
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2010/03/asimov-on-antisemitism-and-wider-prejudice.html
Grunge | (which is why I was well aware of Syrian's lame attempts to take Einstein's beliefs out of context)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_religious_views#Three_styles_of_religious_beli ef
and i quote:
"As he (Einstein) wrote later, "Even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other" there are "strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies [...] science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind [...] a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist."
Albert thinks you are lame too. |
Just because you want everyone talking about the Jews to be talking about Jewish "Ethnicity" so that you can personally take offense (in your "King of Hate" persona - oh right you deleted it from your profile).
Still up on my clan page isn't it? That King of Hate was a gift from Armenia but I figured that the bold flag of Israel staring you in the face each time you check my profile(about 20x per day it seems)would be a much better and also irritating fit. How did I do? lol
We can read about turncoats all the way back in the annals of history up to this very day, as you and your pal show us. There seems to be no shortage of cowardly self-haters these days, is there?
What's more, the modern coward does everything to drag the West through the mud as it can, and would prostrate itself towards Mecca if he could find the way out of his basement.
When Athens flowered, it was full of traitors and a large portion of society living off the dole. Hey looks like history repeats itself again, doesn't it?
In every era there is a real threat, you will find these types, like when they marched in the 60s saying " better Red than dead," because they had cravenly surrendered to the threat of Communism without a boot being landed on our shores.
So you can point to all the cowards you want to throughout history if that settles your weak stomach but for the rest of us, we refuse to surrender to barbarism. | So you can point to all the cowards you want to throughout history if that settles your weak stomach but for the rest of us, we refuse to surrender to barbarism.
You mean "cowards" and "barbarians" like Asimov and Einstein? Doesn't really seem to fit. Especially since you were trying to argue that Einstein favoured your side of the debate (fraudulently of course).
Albert thinks you are lame too.
Does that mean you are admitting your religious beliefs are blind? Because you seem to believe that religion takes precedence over science? You seem to agree with Albert on one definition, what about the other?
I'm fairly sure that Albert was talking lame as in a leg or foot disability (reducing motive function) rather than the slang meaning you are trying to imbue it with. The comparative use of "blind" certainly points to this.
Personally I'd rather be "lame" than blind. Learning to read Braille would be a pain, while technology more than adequately makes up for most motive disabilities that exist (even Stephen Hawking can get around adequately in his wheelchair). In fact being blind carries it's own inherent motive "disability".
Have Fun
Grunge | You mean "cowards" and "barbarians" like Asimov and Einstein? Doesn't really seem to fit. Especially since you were trying to argue that Einstein favoured your side of the debate (fraudulently of course).
No Grunge, cowards bow to barbarians, they are not one in the same. Duh?
Also, don't confuse my arguments with Syrians. He can put you in your place by himself. Einstein was mentioned by him.
Did you see the gay pride march in Israel this weekend? Missed it? I'm sure there is a march scheduled in Gaza and the West Bank....in the year 3,689 or so....maybe.
Yes, funny that a leftist like yourself would raise a voice of disapproval against Israel, where gays can party the night away and women can drive, vote,go to school, and walk down the street without a male family member present....and not dressed in a tent.
Oh yes, the two cultures living there are almost the same, eh? We on the right are wondering when we will see that famous outrage that feminists can show us whenever they feel slighted or they wish to abort their child?
Oh, probably too risky I'd imagine. Lefties don't like confrontation when they know the people they are confronting would cut their heads off.
Quite right. | You do realise that your post 446 justifies the holocaust. The Germans were quite convinced that their culture was superior and anything they did to the sub humans (in their mind Jews, not Palestinians) was acceptable and not up for debate.
As I expected, you didn't answer the question. A couple of times I've tried to show you that if your homeland was taken from you, you'd fight back with whatever means you have, so why shouldn't the Palestinians. Let's ignore if the Jewish response is appropriate or not., Do you think the Palestinians have a legitimate right to fight back, and if you say no, would you not resist if the American Indians reclaimed America? | My, oh my, what a lively debate we have here :D
Now, now play nice, girls.
On another note, rebuttal? | Does that mean you are admitting your religious beliefs are blind? Because you seem to believe that religion takes precedence over science? You seem to agree with Albert on one definition, what about the other?
i completely agree with Einstein: science is the way to understand the material world. the spiritual without the material is indeed blind. and, as Einstein says, there should be no conflict between this two stances. one should not dismiss either one in order to resolve any conflicts.
You do realise that your post 446 justifies the holocaust.
here's a much better justification for the message of Nazi Germany:
Nietzsche announces that "God is dead"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gay_Science
Nietzsche announces the rise of the "superman" (not the DC Comics superhero, ok?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thus_Spoke_Zarathustra
Nietzsche claims Christian morality has no absolute value; only historical (and it's a bad thing, for it comes from a sentiment of ressentiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
a man with no God, able to create from himself his own path, able to freely define what is Good and what is Evil. no surprises where that lead to.
A couple of times I've tried to show you that if your homeland was taken from you, you'd fight back with whatever means you have, so why shouldn't the Palestinians.
pack your bags and leave Australia to the indigenous australians. | Nietzsche claims Christian morality has no absolute value; only historical (and it's a bad thing, for it comes from a sentiment of ressentiment:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
wrong link; right one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Genealogy_of_Morality |
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