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| Author | God and Religion |
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I am a programmer. I am a Hindu by faith. I might have been a Muslim if my parents were Muslim or a Christian if my parents were Christian. I do not pray everyday, though I must be 'sinning' everyday, maybe multiple times each day.
When I think about the possible existence of God logically, I come to the conclusion that if God created humans, he did a bad job. So, I don't really think there is God.
I want to be a good human being. Most religions' prescribed ideal code of conduct leads to that. So, I like all religions (some like Buddhism and Jainism more than others). I especially like the concept of 'karma'. Believing in that concept prevents me from doing what is morally wrong. It encourages me to do what is morally right even if there is no short-term material reward.
Even though I don't believe there is God, I like the concept of God because thinking that there is a being of God keeps me from feeling demotivated. If I got injustice, I can tell myself that the story is not over since God will make sure I get justice later on. This way, I have prevented myself from getting angry or spiteful at the injustice. Whenever I am feeling depressed, I can motivate myself to work again by thinking of 'karma' - if I do the right deeds and work hard, I will get a reward.
So, even though there possibly is no God according to me (or certainly not one as suggested by most religions), I still find the concept of 'karma' and God very convenient and useful. Thank you humanity! | I believe in the religion and the ideals set by batman characters :D
They have spoken such wise words which touched my heart.. :')
"Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It's fair!"
- Joker
"If you're good at something, never do it for free."
-Joker
"you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
-Harvey dent ( before becoming two-face)
"You thought we could be decent men in an indecent time. But you were wrong. The world is cruel, and the only morality in a cruel world is chance.
[holds up his coin]
"Unbiased. Unprejudiced. Fair."
-Two Face
"Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."
-Alfred Pennyworth
“It’s not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us.”
-Rachel Dawes
“Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up.”
–Thomas Wayne
“Why so serious?”
–The Joker | Two relevant comic strips that are a favorite of mine.
http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211
http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212
Have Fun
Grunge | for Grunge:
man that was awesome , i mean "i have videographic proof of my hero's conquests"
simply damn epic | Well... I'm not going much further here.
Can anybody proof god existence? I mean did you saw, hear?... I mean in real life, not crazy dreams... I've dream I'm a Minotaur once and another I could fly. (And many other cool dreams.)
Anyway... All that I gonna say here, is everyone needs to respect each other feelings, it doesn't gonna change your life style in any way if somebody doesn't belief in religion or if he/she does... (Yeah but it's pretty annoying when some one keep talking about it and trying to convert you, or talk about "miracles")
Anyway... "Everyone on your square." That would be the most wisely words that I could say. Anything else will lead into a endless discussion. | For AKA post 31:
What you are talking about is the views we had on evolution a hundred years ago. The reasoning seems logical and is easy to understand.
I will give you two examples of such scientific theories.
Example 1, Astronomy.
A long time ago the general understanding was that Earth was the center of cosmos and that the sun, planets and stars rotated around us. It seemed logical and easy to understand when just looking at them occasionally. Some people started to investigate the movements more closely and made very advanced models about how the objects moved around the Earth. They made several ad hook theories. Finally the models became too complicated and they came to the conclusion that the theory had to be rewritten from scratch.
Example 2, Physics.
For a long time humanity thought the universe was like clockwork and everything was ruled by the laws Newton made. They still work very well for the everyday physics that we all can see and measure with the naked eye. Unfortunately, there appeared more and more experiments that were difficult to explain in both the very large scale and the very small scale. The add hook theories we developed are in popular words called the theory of relativity and the quantum mechanics. Scientists are currently working at "the theory of everything" that would connect those three areas. We are still far from achieving that.
Both those examples have in common that they were easy to understand for the uneducated, and only the pioneers in science know enough to challenge them. For a long time the scientist fumbled in the dark and had to admit that something was wrong, but they could not understand what. The first example required it to be totally rewritten and the second only some modification. There are other examples in between those extremes.
The theory of evolution was widely regarded as a universal truth, but there were some small cracks that were difficult to fill. Some properties of animals are obviously a great disadvantage when they are only developed halfway. The more science has discovered the more discrepancies have appeared, especially in the chemistry level. The gaps are beginning to be wide enough to make it likely that more than an ad hook is needed. I’m really looking forward to see what is going to happen with the theory of evolution.
PS.
A fun fact is that one of the creators of the Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaitre, was accused of being a creationist. He was also a priest so he was an easy target for the scientists that claimed that the universe was eternal. | For Grunge 33, 34
It really makes you credit that you make an effort to look into things. However, I dislike your statement that most burning books incidents were because of religions reasons. I think you need much more evidence for that claim.
As a related subject, I think it is interesting to read about wars that are supposed to have religious reasons. My claim is that most of those had money as most important reason, because it is much easier to say "God wants this war." compared to "We need to take this gold/silver/oil because I want to be richer.". I'm aware of the fact that it is almost impossible to provide any proof for my claim, but it makes sense when studying the known facts.
It is amusing that you claim that many books has been excluded from the bible. It is such an obvious truth. Millions of books are not included. What you might attempt to claim is that there was some kind of debate about what books should be included and what books that should be discarded. As I understand it, few, if any, scientists claim that there was much debate about it.
I can really recommend you to listen to a few audio seminars from one of my favorite authors, Robert Bowman. The series "Science and the Bible" is about 9 hours of information about the subject.
http://www.apologetics315.com/2011/04/robert-bowman-apologetics-audio.html
Robert Bowman's other audio seminars at that site are also very good, so you should take time to listen to them while you are up to speed. | What you might attempt to claim is that there was some kind of debate about what books should be included and what books that should be discarded. As I understand it, few, if any, scientists claim that there was much debate about it.
I think it is reasonably common knowledge that the Catholic church has indeed removed or blocked the addition of various books and texts throughout the centuries which have as good if not better proofs of authenticity than others which are included because they did/did not fit with the Vatican's wishes.
This of course has no relevance to whether god exists or not but just demonstrates that as in all areas of life some people will always claim that they have more knowledge and feel entitled to tell others what they should believe andhow theshould act. This is common in almost all religions and the reality is that they don't have a special chat room with god and why should they be considered as right when they know no more than anyone else can. Religion is a personal thing and once again almost all religions are between you and God(s) and not between you and God via Mr X. e.g. if you 'sin' because someone else told you to do you think this a valid excuse? | You might not like my statement but that doesn't impact on the truth of it. Even today, when most would consider book burning an unthinkable activity, it is primarily initiated for religious reasons. Mostly by people trying to suppress other religions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Jones_%28pastor%29#Qur.27an_burning_controversies
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html?_s=PM:WORLD
I agree that often wars are claimed to be for religious reasons but have had other factors that are the real motivations behind them. However it is an obvious failing of religions that they can be used to justify war in the first place. Especially when so many claim that there religion is a religion of "peace".
It is amusing that you claim that many books has been excluded from the bible. It is such an obvious truth. Millions of books are not included.
Gee, good to see such an honest response about books excluded from the bible. Commandment against "false witness", anyone? Okay if I have to spell it out - there are many "gospels" and other works that have been at different times and by different peoples claimed to be part of the bible. Today there are tens of thousands of different sects of christianity and the main differences is usually in what texts are included and excluded from their version of the bible, plus differences in interpretations of what certain passages mean. Just look at the mormons and the writings of Joseph Smith. If you want to dodge the point and try and pretend that all christians believe the same thing by all means do so. But it is clear to anyone with even a modicum of intelligence that what should be in the bible is not universally agreed upon and never has been. And that so many early writings about mythical figure of "jesus" were excluded shows an intent by the church to artificially shape christianity according to their own preferences. If the christian god were real and talking to it's followers so often (as so many claim) surely there would be a consistent message and no fracturing of the religion into so many different sects?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Grunge | Especially when so many claim that there religion is a religion of "peace".
Obviously meant to be "their", not "there".
Grunge | Probability for the presence of god is undetermined .
There are always points which can prove the existence of god and vice versa.
Here are a few simple points to show that god exists -
Every thing in this universe has a beginning in time , but the beginning of time requires a cause .
What was the cause? Ans : No idea ( there is a probability that it could be god , I never said it is god ).
This was a very good question that my friend abdul asked in real life :)
" How does gravity work? he asked. I answered him and then he asked a stunning question - what was the cause for it? "
I could not answer , but ofcourse there is always a small probability that god might be the cause !
In my last post i spoke and thought as an atheist , this time i spoke as a science student :)
*cheers8 | Gravity works because mass is attracted to other mass. Is this because of reasons of physics, because God decided it so or was it an invention of Newton (pre Newton apples just used to float around randomly).
There is no proof of a god, just faith & belief. | @52 , Thats what amazed me . He asked why are those masses get attracted to each other?
So there is always a very very small probability that god might be present.
It is just like the arguement of the lost MH370.
No one can answer why or because of what :) | I believe religion and science are independent.
Religion tells us what to do and what not to do. Science explains how everything works. I think both can work simultaneously. Catholic church doesn't ask you to abandon science in the name of Jesus. It firmly believes in the theory of evolution. It all depends how you interpret religion.
Religion is never the problem, people are. Religion preaches faith, humanity, love and belief. I like religion till this only. I don't believe in a creator or destroyer
neither do I believe "Aliens" visiting us. "If they did, why would they appear to cranks and weirdos?" ~ Stephen Hawking
Big Bang is the reason why we came into existence. How did Big Bang happen? According to String Theory in quantum physics, a universe can be spontaneously created from nothing at all. A more recent hypothesis suggests that we may be inside a black hole or a black hole can contain an entire universe within themselves.
Once a star is created then due to fusion, Hydrogen combines to form Helium, Helium combines to form carbon, carbon combines to form iron and other 3d transition series elements. Eventually star cools down, collapses, supernova explosion (BOOOM!) and the heavier elements (like gold, silver) are created under these extreme conditions (Extreme pressure and temperature after explosion).
Carbon reduces to Methane, methane combines with other things to form biological matter (forgot the experiment. Not a biology fan. Help!) and basic life form is created and then after few years (tens of thousand years in terms of evolution) complex life is created as explained by Darwin's theory of evolution.
The key point to be noted here is that universe can spontaneously create itself from nothing, total nothingness. And to find our beginning and end is just like finding starting and ending of a circle.
Watch Stephen Hawking's lectures and read his book A Brief History of Time to get a better insight into this.
But I have a firm belief in religion (except the creationism and "explanation of nature" part) due to its Humanitarian values. You can't commit genocides in the name of science. Love for each other is what we need in current times. It will help us to shape a better future. :) | | Change my view if you've something more logical and consistent with science. | Also one last thing I'd like to add, please be patient and try not to say "Science doesn't explain this or that, religion does. Where is your science?"
It takes time to think and find answers to a problem. Its not like you dig up the ground and find long lost treasures of science. Eventually we'll find out and get our answers.
Science will do more good to humanity in a century than religious believes (creation and all other related stuff) did in past 10,000 years. | I read all your comments guys... I need to clarify that i'm a physics teacher, so I want to write some things! :p
1) I'm totally agree with post 54, physics explain how, not why... So there is no contradiction needed between science and religion...
2) Greeks started the study of physics (the Ionian philosophers) in the -400 AC (aprox.) and the studies were retaken up at the 1600 DC (again aprox)
2000 years with no advance in science, why? this was the period of middle age, when the monarchy and the cleric had the control of the society.
So the period of time between Newton and Einstein (280 years) is quite less and if we think in quantum mechanics and how it had developed is quiet awesome: it started in the 1900... Btw, Einstein's relativity (the special one) started in 1905...
3) Right now, amazing things are happening in science: the boson or particle of Higgs... We need to wait a couple of years to do some verifications, but the physics keep advancing in the big theories... And like STB said in his post, most of us can't explain too much about what is happening :(
If you wanna talk about why those things are happening, I'm sorry but I can not answer you... A philosopher could do it, or at least could have some explanations... Remember that please, a cientific asks how not why!
Examples: How the Universe started? a science question.
Why the Universe was created? a philosophal question.
How the Universe was created? a mix question, because with that question we are assuming that someone create the Universe.
See you and keep writing, we need always to think in this stuff! That's how humanity advances! :D | no idea what have other people written about your thoughts and their thoughts not really cares me, but to some things i can give my personal personal point of view:
1. you say you became atheist ? If yes - then you believe that there is no god.
But the thing is - some people _believe_ that there is somebody out there, whom we call god and some people _believe_ that there is nobody here. but the key word "believe in smth./somebody" is still the same. So there is also a third possibility - agnostic. You have no idea what is going on in this world and why it was created and on which way, etc., etc. so because we have no idea about all this stuff - we say that we can't say that god exists and we can't also say that there is no god. In my opinion the search for this answer is not decidable ... to say it in words of theoritcal informatics [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recursive_set].
But there're also some interesting things about proof in existance of god (i don't think that they should be taken too serious - only some mathematical mind f*ck):
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_ontological_proof]
2. In my opinion the definition of word god is incredibly difficult, because we have no idea what this "god" is. the thing is our religions and primariliy beliefs are very old, so there was (of cours) some evolution in this religions and beliefs, so our religions and beliefs become more and more abstract. In my opinion if there exists a god, then our definition or let's better say believe what it should be (i speak about god) could extremly differ from that what this god could in reality be. so we have problem with definition and can only say that "god" is creator of the universe, so actually some professional world-programmer (i like to compare it e.g with "conways game of life" (cellular automat)) and this physic rules were implemented by him... but no idea it could be also something completly diferent.
so i said that god is creator of this world, but we don't know more about this abstract idea. there can be active or passice god or holiday-god (created our world and gone away to create next world xD)
3. if there is god - then who created god ?
if there is no god - who created the world
if the question "is there god or not" is undecidable, then what can we say about origin of the universe ? maybe there really some zero point like bing bang and we can't say anything about what was before big bang, because maybe it would make no sense to us.
4. we learned through generations to think logically, but i mean the word "causality". we learned to think causal: something happened, then there should be a reason for this happening ... because it's logical. but maybe it's only a problem of our ape's brains ? and of course every intelligent creature should think causal, but i want to say is that maybe it is not possible to explain the creation of our universe causally. and maybe we even would not understand why we can't understand it. because i don't see the logic in something infinite. why infinite ? - because if would ask for each question, we will wait for answer and ask again and again for the reason. so i speak about following problem: there is our universe: how it was created and where is it placed ? e.g example we will get an answer. ok. then we will ask - and how was created this outer universe - we will get answer for this question too... but the problem is that we will make such questions without an endquestion, so this asking-process will be infinite.
we can also say: god created the world. and who created the god? another god? or god himself ? ok maybe god created himself (some sort of "bootstrapping"? -> look at wiki.) and who created another god ? and in which world live this gods, etc, etc... too many questions and too much fantasy. infinite questions and i don't belive in easy answers in this problem.
5. this point is more addititi | 5. this point is more addititional to make one thing clear. people talk often about the sense of the world. but if the world have an sense, then there have to be somebody who gave sense to this world. so the world became sense by somebody.
and if there is nobody who crated our world intentionally, then we can't say anything about sense.
GOD -> sense of the world
no GOD -> no general statement is possible to give there.
but if sense of the universe and god are logical biconditional, then it would be rather sad if we could proofe that there is no god:
universe have a sense if and only if a god exists
EQUAL TO:
universe have no sense if and only if there is no god
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_biconditional]
i think this are the main questions which i thought you want to talk about...=)
and try to te see thing absolutly critical. so it is highly probable that i could be wrong with all this thoughts above ;) | Part of the problem for religion with the scientific explanation for the universe is that it shows the biblical creation story from genesis to be just that - merely a story.
Without divine intervention being required as the source of the human species then the whole adam and eve story is unnecessary nonsense. Without adam and eve there is no original sin. Without original sin there is no need for jesus.
So christianity really does depend heavily on the genesis account. Without it, even if he did exist, jesus is just some guy that died and isn't of any real importance at all.
That's why, in many ways, the fundamentalists have got it right. Once you start getting rid of the silly parts of the bible, everything starts to fall apart.
Grunge |
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