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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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I have seen countless examples of children trying to test limits. I have been a leader for boyscouts for many years. When walking on a mountain I had to tell one of them not to go close to an edge. Just seconds after that another child is walking closer to the edge and I have to tell him to stop. I will not bore you with the rest of the story, because most of you get the idea.
This whole issue about arrows is exactly the same childish behavior. My story is about 10 year old children, and the arrow story is about people with that approximate mental maturity.
Why must limits be tested? Just stay clear and everyone will be happy. Who cares if another child walked very close to the edge 10 minutes ago? Should I allow all of them there just because a previous one did something stupid and "got away" with it? Please grow up. | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators
And how exactly this discussion gonna end?
When??
We're currently at post #242... | To use your analogy, what if the "edge" (cliff?) suddenly appeared, where none had been before.
Would you just accept that that edge had been there all along, or would you ask, "Where did this edge come from? What is it's purpose?".
Then you are told by the Scoutmaster "The edge has been there all along, you just didn't see it before". Do you think everyone would merely accept that? Would you?
Now imagine that the edge is an artifical construct made by someone else. Would you perhaps be tempted to ask "Why is this edge here? Why not somewhere else? Perhaps this edge could more useful if it were in another location.".
Curiosity is not just an attribute of the very young. If people just believed everything that they were told, would Newton have thought of Gravity? Would we have any science at all. Questioning limits is very much a part of human nature. And I don't think that's a bad thing. Otherwise we might still be told by religious elders that the Earth is the centre of the universe and the Sun, the stars and all the planets rotate around it. Would that be a better thing. It is likely a game like this would not exist in such a world.
Grunge | In reference to Grunge's posts. I think, and I guess you may be aware, that the question you pose does not actually have a definitive answer.
It gives the impression that one day someone decided to make a rule and punish people having long arrows.
I would think it likely, that one day someone, any who you may legitamtely ask, but I would imagine is of no significance. Noticed that increasingly messages in teh G&C forum were of a sufficient length that they would warp the format in certain hand held devices and that it therefore was against the relevent rule about prevention of this.
This occurred most specifically in terms of long arrows, which is easily resolved since an arrow is still an arrow no matter the length. So, one would imagine if people were warned that this was a problem, that they would make shorter arrows. Problem solved.
I would imagine that after one person made a moderation in this way that other people noticed, and also realised that this was a rule break, which they hadn't considered before, simply because they had not sat and thought about it.
That way it evolves into a situation where a number of people are moderating the same action, though since it was never sat down and discussed, which it could be argued it should have done, there became an inconsistency in approach.
Now, I do not "know" this to be the case. I am not a moderator, and I have not bothered to look back at all the logs and check who first assessed things. Nor have a had word from any mod to say this was what happened. However, I think this is the most likely explanation. And therefore, if this is the case, then who first noticed it should be of no concern, since it does not affect whether it is, or is not a rule break.
What is of relevence is the process that moderators would go through to ensure consistency, when a rule break that had not been noted and looked for before, is noticed and becomeing increasingly significant. | Agreed with both Grunge's and MilesTeg's findings.
The point which demands some highlighting would be explanations. I feel quite a number of assumptions have been made by all parties, without exception, on the case of Mods misusing their powers. Thus all could have been avoided, only if those questioning Mods were given a fair chance to provide their side of the story, and for Mods to also give their side and work out a mutual understanding.
Almost everything boils down to patience and an open mind really. A Mod may have been inconsistent, or not, but that doesnt mean a player cannot query certain issues. To ask is not a sin.
Mods have done good jobs so far, but certain occurences and inconsistencies has cause doubts, which should be addressed. It is only after those involved give explanations on their sides of the story will we be able to make progress. | Answer to 243
It is so sad that parables don't work for all. Every detail can't be identical, because then it wouldn't be a parable anymore.
Curiosity is a good thing when applied to the right areas, like science. When applied to how bad you can behave without being punished, it is childish. Why is this difficult to understand?
The only rule for the forum could be: Keep the forum readable, consistent and nice.
Because some people have problem understanding such a rule, it have to be specified in more detail. We don't want to have 50 pages of detailed instructions so there are some limits to the details. Here we try apply common sense. It is not easy for either players or moderators. We are all humans and make mistakes. The difference I see in people is that some make "mistakes" on purpose. Maybe a moderator did miss a couple of arrows previously. It will still not make the forum nicer and more readable. | # https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_albums.php?id=193802
Just curious,if the Thread was not allowed, how can the picture be alloewed?
Studpid comments like those shown in the picture should not be allowed to roam on this server
This whole segment of the topic seems to have passed below the notice of many. For a more direct link, please look here:
https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_photos.php?aid=6296
This depicts the character of one of Kotrin's most vocal accuser's, in that accuser's own words. Do these seem to be the words of a rational man? Or, do they seem to be the words of someone with a personal axe to grind and a score to settle. Form your own opinion based on what you see.
As we ponder whether abuse has occurred, it is worth taking a moment to understand those who are doing the accusing. If they may be motivated by personal agendas, then their accusations warrant reconsideration. | 2.2. Users are prohibited to leave messages containing any of the following information: obscene, abusive, vulgar language, offending, insulting messages, calumny, loutishness; messages appealing to violent overthrowing of a government, those kindling national and racial dissension, those humiliating the merits of any sex, race or sexual orientation, as well as any other information violating ethical foundations.
Why hasn't the thread been deleted and the player who wrote it banned from the forum? | That's a good question Laitha, but really beside the point of the larger discussion now occuring. What IS relevant is that what does the above conversation reveal about the true motives of one of those crying loudest about moderator abuse?
Should those abuse cries from that person and those involved in the conversation now be as valid as they were before this was discovered? | in answer to you question Slynky - no. The players involved have discredited themselves by revealing their personal dislike of the moderator involved.
My previous post was a response to post #227 by Kotrin, not that long ago and so not completely off topic i hope! | # https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_albums.php?id=193802
Just curious,if the Thread was not allowed, how can the picture be alloewed?
Studpid comments like those shown in the picture should not be allowed to roam on this server
This whole segment of the topic seems to have passed below the notice of many. For a more direct link, please look here:
https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_photos.php?aid=6296
What does this relate to? The top link doesnt work and the other link doesnt seem to show any incriminating photos.... anybody care to explain because im confused? | anybody care to explain because im confused?
I think EVERYONE is confused .... on what the real topic of this thread is suppose to be about | for #252
the thread is about moderators' actions.
So I want to know why a slanderous, insulting and obscene thread only warrants the thread being closed. Why have moderators seen fit to leave it there for anyone to read? Abusive posts are usually deleted.
I can only summise that it has been left there as evidence of the motives behind accusations against Kotrin. Understandable, but not in keeping with the consistent behaviour that we expect from moderators.
I don't want to critisize moderators, i actually think they do a great job and the forum would be chaos without them. But IMOP it's not ok to leave such a vile thread on the forum for public viewing. | LOL @ Elven_Lord.
Since you deleted the photo, we are fortunate that many of us made copies. To alleviate any confusion, please see the link below:
https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_photos.php?aid=6361
For anyone reading post 247, use the above link instead, since Elven_Lord was apparently so shamed by he and his clanmates behavior that he felt obligated to remove the photo from his album and replace it with something less repugnant. Can't fault him for showing a little taste... finally. | #252 To answer your question as it seems to have wondered off topic again. The thread is to cover the abuses by certain moderators of their powers.
It is not to cover whether certain players should or should not be banned for breaking the rules but instead to cover the cases for when some players have been banned for breaking no rules.
Also, to address some of the recent comments:
#229 title:...........Woosh...........................-------->....level
If this had indeed been my title then I would agree that it was not reasonable. All those '......'s would make it confusing and would probably have warped the forum. My title however had no dots in it. If you are going to quote then don't edit it by adding content which was not there to make a point.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877963 <-- as the longest continous string in this title was only 11 characters long even on a handheld device it would warp nothing.
#241 - STB's cliff analogy. A better comparison here would be how your 10 y.o. children would react if you punished one of them for going too close to the edge if they had not gone anywhere near the cliff or were not even on the trip? Would you be right in doing this?
#249 Should those abuse cries from that person and those involved in the conversation now be as valid as they were before this was discovered? As I am one of the main people bringing these complaints. I was not involved the post mentions. I do not think the post should have been done and do not agree with the content of it. In addition I have never insulted anyone in the forums or by mail. Does this make my points or the complaint any less valid?
#251 - Elven_Lord's photo - I was not aware it was there before someone posted above and am glad it has now been removed though personally think that rather than cover it up an apology would have been more appropriate.
#253 - I dont think anyone would try and justify that sort of post and certainly a ban would have been right for it. I do not know why it did not get one. | Off-topic and for Moderators/Administrators:
The Image I posted in post #254 is posted for reference only in this particular case. It was originally hosted on Elven_Lords profile, but he removed and replaced it. It is an image capture of this thread:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877799
It can be considered very offensive on many fronts and I will remove it once this situation has been closed out. If you wish me to remove it prior, please inform me and I will remove it immediately. The thread referenced above is naturally offensive as well and should probably be removed once this situation is closed. | @255
#249 Should those abuse cries from that person and those involved in the conversation now be as valid as they were before this was discovered? As I am one of the main people bringing these complaints. I was not involved the post mentions. I do not think the post should have been done and do not agree with the content of it. In addition I have never insulted anyone in the forums or by mail. Does this make my points or the complaint any less valid?
Perhaps I worded my statement poorly. I only imply that any complaints of abuse from those directly involved should be reconsidered. To be clear, this only includes Modi, Elven_Lord, and Edwin1908.
Your complaints of abuse should not be diminished solely because of this conversation. However, your prior defenses of Modi on this topic of moderator abuse, and his defenses of you, do cast a shadow on your accusations. I am not saying your complaints are invalid, fabricated, or to be ignored. I merely state that, by your close association with Modi regarding stance on this topic, your protests are tainted with controversy. This doesn't render them null, but it makes the issue more complex than it would appear on the surface. | | Indeed the issue is a lot more complex and has been going on a lot longer than is immediately obvious. Also others have also been effected by it including Edwin1908, cantbstopped (who posted priviously in this thread) and others. | | Unfortunately, Edwin1908 has impeached his own credibility on this issue beyond repair at this point by virtue of his participation in the thread above. Giving an "AMEN" to such a vulgar and insulting sentiment kinda removes any semblance of impartiality or innocence. | I Elven_Lord publically apologize for taking a screenshot of a thread that may have been considered offensive as the thread contains insults of a moderator namely kotrin.
I have now since deleted the mentioned screenshot but it seems that by posting this in my photos for all to see has deeply affected many of you (event though the post is still there to see) and for this im truly sorry
I would suggets you guys take it a little bit easy aswell after all this is only a game and we are here to have fun.
and now I invite you to rip me apart, publically humiliate me see if I care... have your fun everybody |
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