| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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I think some really good progress has been made by Slynky and Halvspak and others and fully agree with the measures suggested. With regard to some of th ecomplaints, I think with regard to the tendency of deleting, there seems to be growing mutual agreement.
With regard to complaints of bias and lack of fairness of moderators, there are two ways of viewing this in terms of complaint.
From what I see, the commonest view is, that if other people are getting away with it, I should be allowed to as well, therefore the Mod is unfair.
I would argue, a crime is a crime that should be punished appropriately, whether other people get caught or not is not relevent to that case. Would a murder be punished any differently just because his accomplice was not caught?
Instead, the issue that should be addressed is not in letting off the offender, but in why the other offenders are not being reprimanded.
I suspect why this is may be down to prior history, or simply lack of mod time. Most of this is eminently solvable, and would be by the methods suggested above.
If rules are clear and defined, and they are broken, then it is the fault of the person taht broke them. Actions of other people are not relevant in that persons guilt or not. |
#221 - While I agree with the main content of your post and also feel that everyone should receive punishment for breaking the rules this is not the reason behind this thread.
This thread was created to cover complaints that moderators were abusing their powers, i.e. They were punishing people who had not broken any rules and then further punishing and/or deleting the posts of others who tried to make people aware of this. |
From what I see, the commonest view is, that if other people are getting away with it, I should be allowed to as well, therefore the Mod is unfair.
in most cases, it was mod didnt find it out. as i said, mods dont 24/7 patrol around entire forum and check all topics 1 by 1.
in such cases, some players do provide help by sending PM to mod to report those cases.
I would argue, a crime is a crime that should be punished appropriately, whether other people get caught or not is not relevent to that case.
that's the point. but, most players failed to understand it. they just keep yelling: 'that other is doing so but why i can do that'. after they got punished, they yell on the unfair moderation in PM or public.
If rules are clear and defined, and they are broken...
i got different opinions on this issues. some players interpret rules on their own way. therefore, they start argue with rules and create gray area by their own definitions on public.
take example on 30% transfer rules. yes, some players argue as long as each transfer dont exist 30% and it should be legal stated in rules; BUT constant fiance support is consider as cheating no matter how less you transfer each time. yet, i leave 'how to define constant transfer' to those juries, they are the one to check. i just pick it as example. |
Case in point in Elven_Lord's album:
https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_albums.php?id=193802
Note that I'm not even the one who deleted the thread.
I was wrong, the thread is not deleted and can be found here.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877799 |
#224 - I think this whole thread was totally inapproriate and would not defend anyone making such posts.
Pantheon acted responsibly here by closing the thread though I doubt anyone would have complained if modi had also received a forum ban for his comments. |
# https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_albums.php?id=193802
Just curious,if the Thread was not allowed, how can the picture be alloewed?
Studpid comments like those shown in the picture should not be allowed to roam on this server |
#224 - I think this whole thread was totally inapproriate and would not defend anyone making such posts.
Pantheon acted responsibly here by closing the thread though I doubt anyone would have complained if modi had also received a forum ban for his comments.
Indeed, something is missing here - and that's the reason I include it in this thread. WHERE IS THE BAN?
Modi wasn't at his first attempt on the subject, and posted in Queries and Help knowingly that I had no moderation power over there (and thus letting his insults remain longuer).
1. Why not deleting the thread?
2. Why leaving such foul smear directed against me and not even yielding a 1-hour warning ban? Nothing?
This is a disgrace and an official complaint regarding moderation failure. |
Since the "arrows in the thread titles" was the issue that brought this discussion to a head, there is something else we should perhaps examine.
The first long title with special characters in G&C - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1832138. Posted on 2 May 2008.
The first title with an arrow in G&C - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1832399. Posted on 8 May 2008.
The first title with a long arrow in G&C - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1834164. 27 June 2008.
Perhaps we can now ask - who is playing the games? Those asking why arrows are only now such a big problem or the ones who suddenly made long arrows a problem? There is a long history of elaborate and adorned titles in the G&C Forum. Why is it only now that such titles has become an offence that merits a ban? Shouldn't this *new* bannable offence have been announced first?
In addition, the other instances of similar topic headings were brought to the attention of the Moderators. See post # 5 of https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877756. Pantheon posted in this thread after the mentioned post. By Pangs own words in such cases, some players do provide help by sending PM to mod to report those cases.
The other instances of similar titles weren't moderated. That's a pretty good indication that the threads were selectively moderated. If there was a real concern about such arrows something would have happened a long time ago. It's only now become an issue and it seems to be an issue focused on a particular group of players.
Would anyone that applied these bans care to elaborate?
Grunge |
Your report is partial, Grunge. Why restricting yourself to arrows?
1. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1870112
title: happy birthday panog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
created by: panog on 2009-12-04 19:28:27
ban: Cool down on exclamation marks. Warning.
2. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1873088
title: kwan_waris3====================>level 11
created by: Edwin1908 (League of Shadows) on 2010-01-07 16:46:00
ban: Cool down on ========================> arrows, warning.
note: posts by Elven_Lord mocking the ban, and DEATHisNEAR comment "#Kotrin: Are you serious? " so obviously noticing the ban.
3. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1873176
title: Arthedain ===========>>>>> Level 13
created by: limustudotcom (League of Shadows) on 2010-01-08 23:24:14
No ban.
4. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1875133
title: auror =======>>>>>>>> lvl 13
created by: limustudotcom (League of Shadows) on 2010-02-06 07:17:00
ban: Cool down on arrows in the title. Warning.
5. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876045
title: LEVY -------------------------------> lvl14
created by: SIDERISKA (Elite Warriors) on 2010-02-19 21:40:06
ban: Cool down on arrows in the title. Warning.
Note: contains a taunt by limustudotcom on first page:
Congrats ================================================>>>>>>>> Levy!!
6. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877156
title: Rorrim >>>>>>>>>>>> Lv12
created by: arcanyx (League of Shadows) on 2010-03-08 15:04:54
No ban.
7. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877177
title: esperando -------->>>>>>>>>>&g
created by: RGWarior on 2010-03-08 19:33:22
No ban.
8. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877525
title: kwan_waris3====================>Laborers' guild 8
created by: Edwin1908 (League of Shadows) on 2010-03-14 20:03:43
ban by Kotrin: Cool down on ========================> arrows, relapse.
Note: DEATHisNEAR expresses ironic comments over arrow length and type in the thread. Points out another thread, which had not been addressed yet.
9. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877707
title: cosmin_4_you================> level 8
created by: Edwin1908 (League of Shadows) on 2010-03-17 20:42:05
ban: Cool down on arrows, relapse.
10. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877728
title: Huntahed ----------------------> [2]!
created by: Hewrin (the Kingdom) on 2010-03-18 11:39:16
ban: Cool down on arrows in thread title, warning.
11. link: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877963
title:...........Woosh...........................-------->....level
created by: DEATHisNEAR (League of Shadows) on 2010-03-22 14:40:46
ban by Kotrin: Playing game with mods - congrats, you win.
There, a better view of the whole story. |
As for mentioning this interesting thread...
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877756
... There's no need to restrict oneself to post #5. Note last post in the page by Pantheon:
Just keep the symbols to a minimum.
QATC
And note that the thread has been closed by ARCTIC. I think Arctic is mature enough to have expressed some disagreement before closing the thread if he had a different interpretation, don't you think? |
I didn't restrict myself to arrows. My first link was to the first particularly long title with special characters.
I would still like to know why this had not been viewed as problem for more than a year and a half, and then over a period of less than 4 months it has become a bannable offence. I have heard Mods claim that they don't have time to look through every thread, which I understand. So, did someone complain about arrows, special characters or lengthy titles in the G&C forum? Or did a Mod suddenly decide that it was time to put their foot down on the deplorable overabundance of instances of people congratulating others. Surely a terrible crime indeed.
I really would like to know, did someone complain? Do we get a name? Or was it just decided that the Gratitudes and Congratulations forum was getting out of hand and ruining everyones forum experience, because of all those pesky outbursts of goodwill?
Grunge |
| If you want some complaints, read the first page of this very thread... |
Since we're talking about it, which moderator has been assigned to apply penalties to those in the Trades and Services Forums?
There are some very long and elaborate threads with special characters in there.
Particularly these -
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876142 - this one is particularly long
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877152
So who's going to be applying the ban to Djan? His thread titles seem excessive. Moreso than those in the G&C forum.
Grunge |
If you're telling that there isn't ENOUGH moderation on this server, two thumbs up.
Glad we finally came to an agreement. |
So could I receive a answer to my question? Did someone complain about the titles in the G&C Forum? Surely this isn't a hard question to answer?
If the answer is yes, may we know whom?
If the anser is no, why did some Moderators suddenly decide it was a problem?
Grunge |
Excuse me Grunge, but on what grounds do you think you are entitled to "ask for a name"? And second, since we're all rule-savvy around as it seems, where have you read that forum moderation happens on a complaint from a registered player?
Just out of curiosity. |
I don't think I am necessarily entitled to a name. I do think I am entitled to ask.
Remember the opening post in this thread This topic will not fall under rule 1.5 of the forum rules, you are free to discuss moderators' actions; nevertheless, messages containing flame, foul language and other improper content will still be severely moderated.
If this particular forum moderation wasn't the result of a player complaint, the most likely other reason that this particular Moderation decision was made was because a Mod decided it should happen. I ask whom complained (if anyone did) because if it was a Mod that complained, then this issue was still raised by a Mod.
It's important because if it was a genuine complaint, that would be a decent reason for this issue to have been raised now. If not, why would any Moderator create more work for themselves by creating rules infringements where there hasn't been one before. Th admins were regularly present when this server started. If excessive G&C thread titles were a problem at that time they could have dealt with it then. I would like to know what has changed that a forum where people express Gratitude and Congratulations to others (mostly) it is now considered offensive to adorn the Topic Titles when this has never been an issue before.
Grunge |
Oh, and to answer your question, in post # 223 Pang stated in such cases, some players do provide help by sending PM to mod to report those cases. .
This seems to indicate that some forum moderation occurs due to complaints from players. Or is Pang mistaken on this point?
Grunge |
Or perhaps it was become thread titles in Gratitude and Congratulations were just becoming overboard?
Left alone, problems tend to go from bad to worse. And if you see my post #229 above, you'll notice the progression over the single month of march 2010, from a bad habit to an obvious search for the limits. Can't really compare to what you dug out from G & C in 2008. Don't even know if rule 4.2 was implemented at that time! |
Response to post # 239.
I've already noted. If this is a crackdown on excessive titles in general, I have already posted Threads in other forum areas that have much worse titles (in terms of forum rule 4.2) than those in G&C.
So who decided on the crackdown on Topic Titles? And why did they decide to start the crackdown on titles in the G&C forum and not some other forum?
I think these are all reasonable questions. Certainly not improper content, flaming or foul language. I have answered a question that you asked me. Might I not be be returned the same consideration?
Grunge |
