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| Author | new alt-wiz class |
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Heck, you could even cast blinding to render the most important units from the enemy useless
Yes, you could.
Once.
And waste one round.
So maybe you can pull his shooters out for 2 rounds, and if nobody attacks them, and if he put all of his resources on those, then you get an advantage and may be able to laminate his other troops. Except you have to do that in 3 rounds, or cast blind again. Loosing another round.
You are not being stronger, you are playing a winning strategy, there.
Comparison:
Guess what, that's the same as a Demon can do. And he has faster troops, and again doesn't need the loads of SP that you will need, because his faster troops will act more often so he can blind you only 1 round instead of 2.
Of course you can get mass rapid. Another 1/2 round for you and your troops need to be grouped together in a 4x4 area, hence not moving for a full round and 1/2 (because you must cast blind first, or he may shoot you before your turn comes again).
However, if you fight a long battle being abled to cast a spell once only, soon you'll become a useless magic wize person, however ironically would be OP on the might side, because this build settings would allow to steamroll with the very best spells at ZERO talent cost, leaving you free to take offense, defense and leadership? You even want to add some extra free attribute points with the 'resorb.'
if you play a long battle, you need to remember that some spells are duration spells.
Whoever has tried holy build for wizard (I HAVE) will tell you that in the end, getting SP and KN to boost troops or getting ATK, DEF and INI gear comes down to the same. Hero spend all his time and mana to boost troops that will get barely above what they have with gear and skill point in ATK and DEF, except that in the first case not all stacks are covered all the time.
Comparison: the holy knight: needs 10-12 skill points for magic, and the rest goes to atk, for troops that are already much stronger. And his talents are cheap. And he has offense, leadership and even "prayer" to further boost the troops. During a long battle he may have to repeat his boosts up to twice. This wizard wont be able to, since part of his stacks will be dead.
And did mention half of the wizard's troops are not affected by leadership? (gargs, golems, mummies)
Also this kind of setup would bring 2 insanely problems.
1 if the spells power are based on your SP, then people will stick with a darkness/holy build full might path.
If the spells aren't based on your SP and instead on the stack number, then you'll be free to put all the points into the might path.
the first option would be the right one (SP based).
The player still needs sp and kn, but again, the idea of darkness/holy, although attractive, would be only one option.
It would not be stronger than normal knight (that has the same magic school), since the base troops of the wizard are already weaker than the basic knight ones. And again, if he takes 3 darks, 3 holy and 1 chaos, doesn't mean he'll cast them all.
Very probably only 3 spells will be used, and you must assume the chaos will always be bound to one of the most resilient troops, so that he doesn't lose it too early. Meaning the other spells will go sooner.
Stack only influence the spell level (basic, Advanced expert), in place of talents.
However, if you wanted a alt with the talent access to holy. darkness, nature, chaos and then something else... That would require invest talent points and attribute points to get specific combinations, then that would be a lot easier to balance.
That already exists, it's classic wiz.
And it never worked.
They first balanced it with mini arts, and it was quite ok, but costly.
Then to make wizard more affordable they simplified the mini arts, and since then, the class never recovered. | | However, from my side I stop this debate here, but open to hear from other people if there are opinions +/- | Always keep in mind that a class strenght comes from a combination of things: SkillP put in attributes and talent points.
Might builds use once skillP (generally for atk) and once talents (to boost).
Magic build needs 3: he pays a double tribute in SkillP (both in spell point and knowledge) AND he still needs the talents.
My suggestion tends to bring that back to 2 as it is for all other classeS.
You want to bring a new calculation system for atributes and talents for a single faction alt, that doesn't even exist on the HoMM V universe and isn't even the most popular?
Alright, but in practical terms, why do you thing such overhaul would be viable?
It's like saying "Hey indie team, I want a game with a even better quality than the current AAA games. Then you could sell at 30% of the price of a AAA game with your 3 guys team."
Besides, I'm not really sure if I understand this SkillP at all.
if 1 SKILLP`= 1 attack or defense parameter.
if 3 SkillP = 1 SP or KN parameter.
And if 1 attack/def gives 1 SkillP, and if 1SP/KN gives 2SkillP.
How exactly someone won't stick on a hybrid darkness or holy or both build and put everything else into attack/defense?
Yeah sure, a few nature spells here and there too.
Yes.
That makes 6 spells, assuming all are cast as mass version, 3 full rounds for the caster (less if he has sorcery, and guess what, that alone can be up to 30 TP, already). Say he cast chastise first. Then opponent hit 1 to 3 of his stacks. He loses at least 50% of those spells already - what if none of the 3 was chastise?
Second round, let's cast delay on opponent (that spread his troops on the field in the meanwhile), say 3 stacks are touched.
Another one stack is reduced to half - no more mass spell for that either.
1. Sorcery DOES NOT decrease the atb cost for mass spells.
2. Select the spells that you're going to use first, on the units that are going to be killed/targeted first. And the other spells on tha more tanky units, problem solved.
3. Unless this castle is designed to survive only 3 turns, you'll pretty much cast 4+ OP spells at full strenght and the others at reduced.
4. Since this castle seems to a priority of the targeting, means that factions that are killed or became stronger if not countered at the beginning of the battle, such as Charmed Elf, Tribal, red demon would become stronger, since the enemy side would have to focus their firepower on this castle instead of them.
5. At CL 14+ Where does people take so many stacks with small numbers to keep shooting at? At best they could have 3 small shooter, mostly 2. So why do you think someone would focus 2 or 3 small stacks to kill 3 stacks of yours? Do you expect people to not kill the enemy warden or sharpshoter or Goblin archer, etc, in order to put down a stack of sphyx first? No... you won't lose 3 stacks at first turn.
Now, to make comparisons:
classic wiz: has access to all magic schools
Almost all, but that's what I was wondering here, since it's pretty much what you're asking for, finished and almost propely balanced. Won't be easier to try to fix the class wizzy instead?
and get killed ASAP) in group battles, or stand alone as a chaos.
Did you said 'Stand alone' and 'Group battle' as some standard of quality?
Why someone would want to put down a holy wizard with a full stack of gargules, instead of going for a tribal or a chaos DE, or a red demon, or a even a blood fury barb.
It's the only class that needs double skill points (SP and KN)
By the way, wizz is the faction that requires the least amount of KN for dest ever. It's obcenely how low they actually need, in comparison to Chaos DE or red Demon.
These extra points should be put into SP, perhaps that's the problem with your lack of destructive chaos damage?
Let's not talk about lvl 5 guild, since it's not introduced, yet
But it will. What would be your answer when it does?
Let's | Let's not talk about lvl 5 guild, since it's not introduced, yet
But it will. What would be your answer when it does?
Let's be fair here, it might take years or even never be introduced (game shutdown before happen.), however IF IT DOES, what would be your solution to the problem?
If your suggestion has a flaw that is bound to happen, then how it's viable?
But assume summon elemental, fire wall, and chaos magic.
I summon elementals. Either i have crap stats (because i summon a bunch of them) or i get less than half a dozen due to low SP. Skill points are the same for all, and if you have tried playing elementals (I HAVE) you must know that the problem is not the 16 TP that it cost to unlock them.
It's that you can't get a viable stack to work with.
So i have my 24 elementals (assuming 15 SP) and i had to summon them at fist, or else can't boost them. opponent turn comes, he kills half of my firewall stack.
Should have done 160 damage, will do 144, now. And already 33 mana gone (how much do i have? say i put 10 skill points in that, and took intellect - 150).
2 things.
1 - I can get more than 15 SP on my current CL 10.
2 - One reasons why the classy wizard have a hard time summoning elementals is because they have to dump points into talents, SP/KN and they lack on army dps.
If you give them summoning at free talent cost and give them Offensive, defensive and leadership talents. (why leadership, it doesn't affect gargules, nor golems.), IF they don't need to put as many points into KN/SP, IF they could buff those elementals, and IF you fix the classic wizard problem with troops (lack of dps from the army), and IF you could still cast destruction magics... Then you would have a completely different outcome. Apples with oranges, literally.
i don't have dominions.
Oh my gosh, how did these Chaos DEs survived without any dominion?
Yeah, you totally made it unviable because they don't have it.
Yes, you could.
Once.
And waste one round.
So maybe you can pull his shooters out for 2 rounds, and if nobody attacks them, and if he put all of his resources on those, then you get an advantage and may be able to laminate his other troops. Except you have to do that in 3 rounds, or cast blind again. Loosing another round.
You are not being stronger, you are playing a winning strategy, there.
Blind is a weak spell? Whaaaa...
Let me tell that for a stack of thanes before using retribution, or perhaps a stack of lizard that could potentially destroy the most important unit from your army, but instead it will be laying doing nothing, while you eat his army and will take him alone... Maybe a stack of boars in order to get a really sweet first strike, or even tyrants if you're going to strike them.
Surely blind is a terrible spell, because taking the most important unit from the enemy army out for the combat from several turns, does not have any importance.
Why someone would attack a unit blinded? Why for the divines name, why?
if you play a long battle, you need to remember that some spells are duration spells.
Whoever has tried holy build for wizard (I HAVE) will tell you that in the end, getting SP and KN to boost troops or getting ATK, DEF and INI gear comes down to the same. Hero spend all his time and mana to boost troops that will get barely above what they have with gear and skill point in ATK and DEF, except that in the first case not all stacks are covered all the time.
Yeah, the fact that you've played as a holy wiz cleary makes you a lot more experienced into a completely overhaul and creation of a new alt faction. Sigh.
Yeah... That's entirely the point of a support class is to support the team.
Even if you have 'barely above stats,' you'll have to dump talent points and action from the hero into casting magics, which means even full buffed in a 1v1, due the time needed and passives lost, it would be better to not be playing as a holy nor da | darkness. These builds were oriented to be played on 2v2 or 3v3 format of battles.
Thing is, a mass spell cost 0.5 atb, so you'll have a maximum of 3.5 atb if you manage to cast them all bofore one of your stacks getting killed. Let's say it's no longer mass and it became single or you're going to get single target spells... Let's go with a amazing 5 turns tops. After these '5' turns you won't be abled to cast nor do anything else. While a proper chaos, nature or darkness/holy would still keep going if they still have mana to burn, they still would be userful, magic wise.
Instead you want to give them might talents and free magic spells.
I'm not saying it would be weak, definitely not, it would be OP, I am saying that in a long battle, you won't get the effect of "winning by strategical magic super duper planning" instead you would get a extremely OP start from magics, and completely anihilate the competition by brute force, pure might.
___
In my opinion this idea would make a terrific event. These special rules and mechanics, with customized army creation with some source of lore and good writting behind it, to support the cause, would really bring something great.
For a new alt faction? Not quite. -1.
However +1 for an special event. | fine you gave your point deeply angel, and i believe you missed 90% of what i meant to say. No matter, we just have points of view.
But now let's hear if anyone else has opinions? | | Oh, I was expecting to find the Warlock somewhere here in this thread, weird. | I'd love the idea of a wizard that is fun playing. And wizard could be fun!
But there is a huge difference between ideology and its implementation.
As it stands, I find the wizard implementation by our twinnies NO FUN. Playing wizard is just a long string of hurdles, in 99% of events and PVP (single or multi).
Only thing this implementation of magic wizard is good for is killing bots in hunts and mercs (but even those have hard limits against fast enemies, shooters, or those with magic protection -- which tend to be a lot).
Almost all other factions have more diverse, useful, and fun to play with magic spells than wizard (weather is chaos, nature, darkness or light). I mean, really! what's the point of a wizard if not excelling at the use, diversity and combination of magic??...
As for might wizard, the army units are not built for that. There is one stack that's mildly competitive, and as soon as that goes down, it's finished.
Whoever plays wizard now, mostly does it so for faction resistance.
I've rest my case long ago. Its up to twinnies to make their turf fun. Or shoot it down. | ^Traitor wizard! stone him to death!
XD
da dada dada da dadadadadah! | -1
Most probably something is already planned but yet to be introduced. |
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