| Author | creatures- who's stronger? |
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probably liches will be blocked but what about elfs?
they wont reach you in first turn and they will probably focus their shoots in skeletal. dont you agree?
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=498403073<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=498323795<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=498203335<=-1
That's the answer to your question. Those are just some replays from the best pvp players in .com, so do not doubt about their skill =) |
Arch Litch have good damage but very low hp.
Currently at level 13, i use only 2 stacks of 3 arch litches for debuff.
I could recuit another 5 archlitch for a loss of 35 appas. I prefer appas in PvP.
To me strongest T5 are:
B. Uni and HH (their special abilities are useless against undead, but ohh they hurt when luck)
thunderbird and s genies (might) fly so fast and far (and can inta kill my vamp)
ladon and s genies (magic)
Clerics
arch litch (big fat bull's eye with low hp.. and low number... shouldn't necro ALWAYS be able to recruit more than any other factions in each tiers (of course at the expense of another tier)??? |
#21
I see that you're doing an apple-to-orange comparison. We're supposed to compare one creature of each type to another. In your examples, we always only 12 archliches, compared to 17 brilliant unicorns and 15 nightmares, for the same level. I don't know what the maximum number of tier 5 creatures you can get at combat level 15, but I strongly suspect that you can recruit less Archliches than Brilliant Unicorns and Nightmares.
I could concede that nightmares are more powerful than brilliant unicorns; it was somewhat of a tossup for me. The reason I pick unicorns over horse is that while they both have triggerable abilities, Elf's favored talent is Luck, so is more likely to have Soldier's Luck than Demons, making their Blinding Attack ability a bit more useful. |
You have a habit of picking only examples that support your opinion. Are you seriously saying that we can't find an example where BoJIoD9I fairly beats an Elf?
Plus the outcome of these battles wouldn't say anything about this thread's topic anyway. Surely battles can't rely entirely on Tier-5 creatures. |
I don't know what the maximum number of tier 5 creatures you can get at combat level 15, but I strongly suspect that you can recruit less Archliches than Brilliant Unicorns and Nightmares.
unfortunately, 12 is the maximum recruit count for arch liches at combat level 15 |
One way that we can guess what Admins think of these creatures' power ratings, is to look at the maximum recruit numbers. For example, at tier 7, bone dragons are the weakest, and so you can get more of them than any other tier 7.
Knights are an exception, of course. Their Training ability would skew the maximum number comparison, at least for all but tier 4 and tier 7.
If you can recruit less Archliches than other tier-5 creatures, that's an indication that, one-on-one, Admins think they are more powerful than other Tier-5's. |
Talking about one-on-one is meaningless
can you say that the poisoner is the best T1 in the game? they definitely win all the one-on-one in T1 |
The reason for low number of archiles is...
Advantages:
Shooter
Aeo damage
Good stats for a range unit, and alot defense + attack stats + hp (it's a range unit don't forgeT)
Upg advantages:
Can debuff and dps the enemy with amazing magic spells.
This also make the unit more userfull, it's make the unit don't suffer if they are blocked and can curse a single unit to make advantage on the battlefield.
Weakness
2x2 unit
Easy to block
If the question if they are powerfull? the answer is a big YES!!
If they got a same number than other unis, the necro army will be so overpowed, the number of creatures the lichs can kill is crazy! also with high number they will be very hard to kill.
Also be a shoters make they a advantage for you, if the enemey want you stop, they need come to block you, this give advantage to you stand and wait and shot inside the range with your skells bowmans, and if he come alone, well, your army will have something to eat. |
@ 28
Why is a level 2 wiz talking about high tier necro units? You comments are theory ONLY... until you actually play with them, you know very little of what they are capable of. if your options are based on HOMM series, then you would know necro unit weekly growth is MUCH more than other tier to compensate for their weak units...
Good stats for a range unit, and alot defense + attack stats + hp (it's a range unit don't forgeT)
What are you talking about: high hp?
Are you saying it is OK for necro to have low recruit ability for arch litch since this big fat archer is better than other archers? You are making a comparison of a tier FIVE unit to other archers (usually lower tier)?
Must i remind you I had a penalty of 35 appas to recruit 5 puny extra arch litch at level 13.
But i do agree if used properly arch lithc are powerful units (like all tier 5 units), but the admin have capped their number too much (lolz 11.. yes ELEVEN arch litch = 13 thunder birds = 18 s genies = 18 clerics = 12-ish laddons/hh/uni = LOLZ puny 11 arch litch...) |
We'll as said before, a WHOLE army and STRATEGIC mind helps alot, however
if u dnt have strategic mind, which is LOWM main annoying requirement..
recruitment of troops can be the win/loss of a hero besides tier 5 is not
a lone wolf, understand?
Since were talking bout tier 5 creatures..
IDK what to say :(
Need 2 get 2 dat level soz just reminding the obvius ^^ |
@29 Please be less arrogant, if i'm talking i'm not in theory, you ask if they are strong and the asnwer is they are.
I never said anything about settement, i talk about only the streng of unit.
They got a high penalty beucase they are really strong, if youd notice it, not my problem. |
Ps: i gonna say again to you don't be lsot...
I'm not talking which settlment can be better, if 35 app are better than 5 archlnchs don't matter, i'm talking ONLY about the unit. |
| Clerics and Archliches are stronger than other troops in that group |
| lol,rocks stronger! |
for Apocalyptum: Mabybe at ur level they are scary .. liches are great .. :) but at CL 11 and up .. they are not very good .. :( They did lack damages with their shoot .. do not forget, necros have no morale at all .. :( so no more turn they will have .. :)
Good comparation by the way .. :) Brilliant unis are the best ... :) Yes .. :) followed by nightmares .. :) |
| Topic moved from "Queries and help" to "General game forum". |
The thing about casters is that they are very useful to the army even if most of the stack has been killed. Brilliant unis and nightmares rely on hp to trigger their status effects, but the spells of archliches only suffer a loss in duration but are not any less potent, of course with the exception of poison.
While 17 brilliant unicorns may be stronger than 12 archliches at the start of the battle, come to the 3rd turn, 3 archliches are probably capable of contributing more to the overall fight than 4 brilliant unicorns because the darkness spells are still just as effective.
Of course you can argue that by the 3rd turn, the winner of the battle is already clear. However I think for even battles, the tide can easily shift even after the 3rd turn onwards.
Elves and demons generally max their recruit count for brilliant unicorns and nightmares since part of the strength of these creatures lies in the total hp. On the other hand, it is less essential for necros to recruit maximum archliches because they are flexible enough to be used as attacking or casting units. If used for the latter, they are obviously recruited for support purpose only, which means the necro can then recruit more of other units (35 apparitions in Gyver's example).
So maybe instead of just focusing on the effectiveness of the unit in the overall battle, we should consider the opportunity cost too? Instead of recruiting another 5 archlich (which is arguably weaker than having an additional 5 brilliant unicorns), we choose to recruit 35 apparitions (which is now arguably stronger than the additional 5 brilliant unicorns). |
Well,In my opinion
Brilliant unicorn are brilliant |
| we don't consider hero bonuses, but for senior genies should we consider minis? because they can be amazing :P |
I know this is not really that relevant to the discussion but I thought this was an interesting observation. These are all the record hunts for all levels/all factions for each of the tier 5 creatures.
clerics 1012
arch liches 1023
nightmares 1378
thunderbirds 1686
senior genies 1972
brilliant unicorns 2103
ladons 3184
monks 1349
liches 1536
hell horses 1814
rocs 2172
genies 2709
unicorns 3033
hydras 4463
Something to think about. |
