| Author | fighter arts vs. magic arts |
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1.) You got auto level schemes which favoured certain types of builds but at least magic played a very important role EVEN! for might builds.
And even as wizard taking offence and Archery was a good decision thanks to 3 shooters in your army whith phantom army and Phoenix summon those talents came to a good use.
Let's also not forget that all tiers of creatures could be made very useful mostly.
Modern Golems with the March of the Golems talent which grants +2 speed and +2 initiative coupled with a +2 speed and +xx% initiative art was a very strong upgraded tier 3 unit.
And since everyone takes Logistics getting march of the golem was an easy pick.
Several buildings on most maps enhanced attack and defence as well and coupled with arts you could get good ratings in 3 out of the 4 major stats for VERY faction giving a lot of room vor variety.
2.) Magic builds in HoMM 5 were generelly considered weaker than might builds. Academy after the weakening of the Master Gremlin special ability was considered one of the weakes factions in early game.
3.)
My argument was that all other factions had a racial ability which derived from the original game with the exception of wizards and most recently barbarians albeit their bonus can be useful in PvP/Thieves as well.
One hast to ask why wizards got that hunt/merc bonus granted and anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realize after just some hunts and mercs that wizards would suck terribly in mercs and hunts if not for that bonus. I can certainly say that since I played my 4 FL of DE as magic DE and let me tell you compared to wizard this was by far NOT enjoyable but I refuse to play full might on my main since it's incredibly boring for me.
Therefore it is very easy for anyone with half a brain to conclude that this faction bonus exists ONLY so that wizards are cometetive in PvE in other wods it was a bandaid for magic because they could not come up with something better to balance magic in PvE as well.
Otherwise no one would play wizards except for die hard masochists.
3.) Your "argument" less units vs. less attribute points doesn't make sense. Why would that make magic op? Magic would be op if even major might factions like demon and knight would almost exclusively play as magic build. Just like a major magic faction like DE is played mostly as might and rarely as magic.
Unless you can prove that there is any corralation between amount of troops, magic attributes and balance this can be regarded as a desperate attempt to artifially create an argument in the absence of any valid argument.
There a certain factors which clearly show that unbalances are there.
One can be the distribution of certain types of armies for example. And if the difference is as crass as it is present here one has to admit there is something not balanced one way or the other.
4.) Of course statistics are neccessary when it comes to balance discussions because they are the only source of objective arguments for a balance discussion in the first place.
While everyoe is entitled to their subjective point of view it's just that and has no place in any balance discussion.
5.) Your last sentence makes no sense since it doesn't have a conclusion.
6.) You claim magic is overpowered with magic guild level 4 in PvP.
So why aren't the vast majority in the top 100 magic builds if it's so superior?
I am 100% sure that almost all pure magic builds in top 100 are wizards. |
One hast to ask why wizards got that hunt/merc bonus granted and anyone with a modicum of intelligence would realize after just some hunts and mercs that wizards would suck terribly in mercs and hunts if not for that bonus. I can certainly say that since I played my 4 FL of DE as magic DE and let me tell you compared to wizard this was by far NOT enjoyable but I refuse to play full might on my main since it's incredibly boring for me.
Sure, they (we) would be really crappy... Though, in the other hand, it makes as much sense as fighting against thousands of farmers with 1 def and 1 atk while you can end up with 30+ atk. IMO, the problem mainly comes from the way how PvE goes, than some concerns about builds: playing as defense build makes no sense in PvE too (out of ambushes, possibly). |
Defence is a variety of a might build. While pure defence might not be the best for hunts and merc, I am still sure that at least Basic Defence and Vitality are popular pretty popular talents especially among Necromancers and knights.
I certainly will not discuss various builds inside the two most defining fields because that would be an incredibly long winded and complex discussion and would easily go even much more OT than we already are.
As a wizard I can safely say I can play as nature magic wizard and destruction wizard in hunts and mercs and can be decently successful but as magic DE at CL 10 magic is just terrible outside of PvP. Often I end up just using up all my mana for Delays and Disruption rays and using destruction spells only for finishing a stack.
All I can do are very easy hunts and mercs I could do as CL 6-8 wizard.
The best solution would be granting the wizard bonus for hunts and mercs for all factions.
The hunt bonus does have a big drawback though, it really devalues spells like Wasp Swarm for example because roughly 9 times out of 10 you'd be better off dealing as much damage as possible. |
this is a bit more complicated than I thought...
for me it would be ok, if
Sword of retribution gives +3 atack +1 def = 4
Combat staff gives +3 attack +1 spellpower = 4
...
:) |
for DonOctavio:
That would not happen. If that happened admins would need to rebalance the entire game.
As it stands now spellpower > attack > defense.
If you want to make each stat cost/worth the same, then admins would need to adjust all the damage formulas making spellpower weaker and defense stronger. |
ok.
Thx for the info! |
"If you want to make each stat cost/worth the same, then admins would need to adjust all the damage formulas making spellpower weaker and defense stronger. "
Why weaken something which isn't particular strong already? |
for Shagan:
You are really fond of arguing over the little details, but this is how I see it from a macro view.
You are right about wizards' racial ability being there only to balance PvE. If not for it, full magic build is underpowered (compared to full might build) when it comes to hunts/MQ.
For PvP I would say it's generally balanced. You correctly noticed that most people play might build instead of magic build. Why we hardly see any non-wizards playing a full-magic build is because they do not possess the hunt/MQ damage bonus that wizards have! It is definitely easier to play as a might build consistently, than playing as magic build for PvP and then switching to might build for PvE every time you want to do a hunt/MQ.
The problem is not that magic is weak per se, it is that it is only weak (for non-wizards) at hunt/MQ. By the way, the lower level of intelligence that AI has relative to a human is a major reason why might is superior to magic for hunt/MQ. What can be done is to give every faction a bonus to hunt/MQ similar to the current existing one wizards have. But I guess that's not being done because it will undermine the wizard's unique ability.
So as it stands, comparing point for point, spellpower > attack > defense. |
because caster (haos) easily kills every warrior on 5-7 lvls)))
Well - I did so on .ru and here could do, if i wanted))) |
for Synthetic_soul
if You don't play on roulette much... :) |
I think might and magic are well balanced in PvP.
For PvE I would say, introduce the wizard's spell damage bonus for all factions. |
