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| Author | To all people who monopolize artifact etc Defender Shield... |
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from https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=12
... Anticipating a little, we would like to notice that the game's particular point is the absence of any limits in character's development. Skillful traders can become significant magnates with production networks, eliminating their foes not only in combat, but also resorting to economic sanctions and monopolies. | Think about it earlier for the next time.
but let's say you stuck for a couple of hours at another place ... merc mission or such... so why not do small sales | #22
You are never stuck; you can still move back and forth.
For this topic I think a maximum price should be set. And that price should be the facility price. | #23
Facility price will lead to a tax loss of 33 gold if put up on the market.
In any case, market regulation, or the topic creator's "cartel-esque" idea stifles competition. | #24
I only meant that any price above facility is just price gouging and monopolization. But of course sellers are always free to sell below standard facility prices. Just look at the leather armor market.
Since ordinary arts (and resources) have defined standard prices, merchants should not be allowed to raise their prices above the standard. But for the hunting and rare arts I have no problem with them playing monopoly.
As the topic starter suggested he wants to place a minimum sell price above the facility pricing. I think this is not only unethical but should be against the rules. Currently there is nothing preventing a group of players to monopolize defender shields (or signet rings, etc.) and sell them for let's say 5000 gold each (or some other crazy high price). | | @25 simply want happen.... its a free market | Currently there is nothing preventing a group of players to monopolize defender shields (or signet rings, etc.) and sell them for let's say 5000 gold each (or some other crazy high price).
Error.
There is something, and it is:
1)the fact that we have a facility that actually produces every hour.
Small quantities, true, but still something.
2) the limit set in the inventory.
When the said people reach their maximum stockage, the shields would stay in the factory.
The said group of people would reach its maximum stockage since, it is an economic law, the highest the price, the lowest the demand (that is, people would go for other arts to complete their armour, since shoes, breast armour and helmets would finally became cheaper than defender shield. Same goes for ring or any other arts).
The only alternative for the monopolizers to keep the pace would be to increase their group size, enrolling more and more people.
But this way their gains would reduce progressively, since every new member would have some shields to sell.
At the same time, their inventory being full, they wouldn't be able to compete on other market areas.
As you can see, slowly but surely we get to a dead end. And consider also that there always be some people doing business outside the group, who would have all interests in selling at a lower price.. Blessed economics :D | well if you are not in east bay at the moment...
Well I wont argue about that, it is a difficult way. But when you have to choose between end of def. shield shift or the nickel facility..And when you have time to hit refresh 600 times for 20 minutes with your eyes bleeding, you will get a nice stack of gold every hour. | | that's true, but most of the day i am at work irl, so kinda hard to be doing that when i have to do real work... | 11:
There is just one case one doesn't want to scare away other merchants, when one is all alone in one's segment, in any other case less competition means more profit in the long run.
25:
You actually missed a far more interesting way, what happens when each member of this conglomerate creates a secondary character whose sole purpose is to earn money and buy a portion of these shields from this group (of course not from there respective main) and sells them to the shop?
But I doubt either way will really work, because you assume that you could assemble a group that could buy nearly all items of a kind, but what should stop other players from doing the same? | 25:
You actually missed a far more interesting way, what happens when each member of this conglomerate creates a secondary character whose sole purpose is to earn money and buy a portion of these shields from this group (of course not from there respective main) and sells them to the shop?
Even this way can be exposed..not sure if it is against the rules when you profit from my multi and I profit from yours. But it could be done solo with hunter items. Character that buys gloves for example with main and then gives +1000 gold on each and buys and discard everything that is cheaper..but I think the reserve of any item is larger than the ability of multis to buy them, so it wont work either way. | that's the thing - there will always be other merchants, as long as there's profit in it...
me, i am getting bored easily with repeating the same steps, and then wait for the stuff to sell. I like to re-sell stuff but rather do it for different things. on the russian server i can do it with virtually any artifact... here it's only def shields, luck amulets and signet rings.
oh and the steel helmet/cuirass/might sword which 7th level noobs tend to buy from the market for about 2-3 K above art shop price | #27
1. That small qty is absorbed by the cartel's inventory space as they camp the shift end preventing users from buying.
2. Of course there is a inventory limit, so they can't do the same thing for an art that has 10,000 units, but they can easily do it to any art with a low supply or a shortage.
3. Certain arts such as the defender shield is by far cheaper than alternative arts. Everyone knows that there are arts with far lower per AP cost than others. Also there are many arts with no good alternatives such as the signet ring. Of course this means with prices reach 10 times the facility price, then no one buy the arts, but currently there is still plenty of room for price gouging.
4. The whole point of putting together a cartel and agreeing on a minimum sell price is to eliminate competition. Basic economics of turning a perfect competition product into a oligopoly/monopoly.
#30
I don't know how legal that is in the current rules. But to do that the multis would need a lot of gold so that the mains can better create shortages.
Nothing would stop other players from buying the same item at shift end. The whole point in putting together a group is so that no one would compete because enough buyers are in the group to prevent any real competition. And since the item gets produced every hour, you would need a group to buy from the facility every single hour. | #31
I believe fusei is talking about using the multis not for profit, but strictly to create an artifical shortage of an item. The multis are there to buy from the mains at cost so that the mains don't lose any gold. Then the multis sell the item back to the game at a loss thereby destroying the item and creating a shortage. | The whole point in putting together a group is so that no one would compete because enough buyers are in the group to prevent any real competition.
In my eyes this group would be unmanageable big, for example if you really want to control defender shields you need one buyer for each shield (12) plus 50% to compensate for people sleeping.
I don't know how legal that is in the current rules. But to do that the multis would need a lot of gold so that the mains can better create shortages.
Since you get 85% of the price back when you sell an unused item to the shop a LG 4 multi can 'destroy' one defender shield per hour, so 3 people with each two multis can half the supply.
Actually this doesn't even require transfers to the multis, one just stock up the main and when they are well stocked the multis start buying. | #35
In my eyes this group would be unmanageable big, for example if you really want to control defender shields you need one buyer for each shield (12) plus 50% to compensate for people sleeping.
I admit that group needs to be big, but not unmanageable. An average clan can easily do it. In a group different players live in different time zones and have different online schedules, so there is no sleeping.
Since you get 85% of the price back when you sell an unused item to the shop a LG 4 multi can 'destroy' one defender shield per hour, so 3 people with each two multis can half the supply.
Actually this doesn't even require transfers to the multis, one just stock up the main and when they are well stocked the multis start buying.
That's 6 multis with LG4. First those multis need to keep enrolling. Second LG4 is pretty high for a multi. Most multis I report usually have lower than that. Third, I would call 6 multis that's online per hour as a lot. | I admit that group needs to be big, but not unmanageable. An average clan can easily do it. In a group different players live in different time zones and have different online schedules, so there is no sleeping.
You need 12 players at any given time, so if each of them sleeps 8 hours, even at different times, you still need someone to replace those.
That's 6 multis with LG4. First those multis need to keep enrolling. Second LG4 is pretty high for a multi. Most multis I report usually have lower than that. Third, I would call 6 multis that's online per hour as a lot.
The only thing they do is enroll and buy an item when the main has no need for it, so when you're online anyway that's not a real problem. LG 4 takes one and a half month and you can use the multis before that.
And after all these multis don't do anything illegal. | #37
So basically 12players x 8 hours online --> 36 players total needed.
I wouldn't call that 36 as unmanageable. This number is needed to buy every single shield up, but I'm sure that letting a few slip by would still work.
I guess if a group is made to monopolize the market, then it's relatively easy for that group's multis to reduce supply.
And of course once such a group exists, they can also monopolize several other arts as well. | 38:
Actually 18 (8 hours sleep => 16 hours playing), but this is a worst case analysis (the theoretical minimum you need). Practically you probably need much more since there's no guarantee that each of them really gets an item per hour and people might have a real life, too.
Each wanted item is produced at the same time so unless you want to induce a shortage all by yourself you have to stick to one type. | Fusei, stop giving 'em ideas ^^'
Pantheon: here's the point:
3. Certain arts such as the defender shield is by far cheaper than alternative arts
Yes, defender shield is cheaper then alternative arts at 3.3k; sell it at 5k and it will loose all its interest, since a pair of boots or an elmet become cheaper (don't forget that you only recover 60% of 3.3k, not 5k).
Thus alternatives would become more interesting, market sales for def shield would fall (not to 0, there always are stupid people who buy no matter what, but the higher the price, the lesser stupid clients we shall find - luckly), and slowly, but without fault, the bags would fill with shields..and again, no matter how many people will there be in the cartel, some shields will always pass through because of another external player who will be able to catch a shield or two clicking at the right moment.
Also, a bigger group will mean smaller incomes, since if one sell a shield to a client, the other won't sell to the same client.. if today there are 10 people, and they earn 300 golds per sale, with 10 sales a day (and it is a large statistic) when you have 100 people who earn 1600 per sale with the same number of transaction..
300*10*10= 30000 (total income of 10 pax)
1600*10*10/10=16000 (total income of 1/10 of 100 pax, that is, 10 pax)
with a *lot* of work done, assuming the same amount of transactions (i doubt it), all done at the best price (assuming again no sellers external to the cartel)..
would it be worth the hassle? |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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