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| Author | Economy isn't balanced for all factions |
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What if you don't like being patient but still like magic?
If one is out of money, he will need to play less battles, and this will excell all wizards from the top players. Old players are another matter. They gained far from enough gold before the AP rule came out. If i remember right, that's 6 months of enrolling with out the need to wear arts.
If wizards need to be more patient to master the faction, it simply conflict with "all factions are equal". Less gold, slower levelling. Less levelling? Less power. The equation breaks and the cycle falls apart.
Sorry for all the 1337, i try not to but i just got used to it.
More on that later, gimme a break, need to take a shower and in the meantime, come up with more and better persuations *afks* | | Honestly Wizards have many advantages in this game .. especially in hunting, When u have mini-arts try to skip some magic arts like cape of spirit or wizard cape .. ^^ Mini-arts are strong .. especially when u have enchanted gargoyles with 3 or 4 luck .. ^^ Yeahh it is EXPENSIVE but balanced with the effects u will get .. ^^ Try it and have fun .. | Here's my point of view... Compared to the other factions, impatient wizards are weaker, wizards with average patience are of about equal strength, and patient wizards are stronger. So in that sense, it balances out.
if you don't like being patient but still like magic, then why not try a magic DE, for example?
Or donate, so you don't have to be patient and still afford regular 'wizard stuff'.
If you don't like doing any of those, then obviously you can't have everything your way :P | Sorry for posting again : What if you don't like being patient but still like magic?
If one is out of money, he will need to play less battles, and this will excell all wizards from the top players.
Double mini arts is good ... it is enough to win battles .. ^^
For me When I am a wizards, I will not give each troops all mini-arts available .. For magis just Inits and Hit Points, for Gargoyles just defence and Attack .. ^^ Then U will waste less money ..
BEst regards,
Randhy | if you don't like being patient but still like magic, then why not try a magic DE, for example?
Or donate, so you don't have to be patient and still afford regular 'wizard stuff'.
Numerous tests have been made, both here and on .ru. Magic DE does not work good later on, it's only a period from level 1-7.
For me When I am a wizards, I will not give each troops all mini-arts available .. For magis just Inits and Hit Points, for Gargoyles just defence and Attack .. ^^ Then U will waste less money ..
Wasting less money=Paying less patience, so wizards will not be as strong, see below.
Here's my point of view... Compared to the other factions, impatient wizards are weaker, wizards with average patience are of about equal strength, and patient wizards are stronger. So in that sense, it balances out.
Why does wizards have to be patient to be stronger? Not any other ones? It's just a completely different play style. It's like your left hand saying to your right hand:"Why do I have to use all my fingers 1000 times/minute to use all these attacks and you only use your peckfinger? It's not fair." More patience means slow leveling. Why can other factions be top players and still strong but not wizards? Comparing another single faction with wizards and a newcomer will think its factions taken from different clones. Don't you consider doing only hunts like anyone else enough patience?
Tell me, if wizards are discribed so strong like unbeatable with just a little more patience, why is there only 11% playing wizards? Are knights really so good? Many people abuse killing necros, and yet there are only 16% playing. Demons demons demons, poor demons, 7%, why? Logically, the game is not as balanced as it discribes or claims to be.
Let's take another example with demons
Hunt=Terrible. Countable amount of demons in top hunters(even with 14% population for all factions)
Merc=Bad. Demons can tell you.
Thief=Average.
Duel=Good. Finally, an above average
Group Battle=Poor. Tell me, what do you have besides Mistress, What can you do besides spamming with spawns?
Conclusion=Don't play if you prefer power. | I will bring myself as an example to see how i did it and you will see it is not so terrible...
First of all, i used diamonds. TGI and gargoyle-lorekeeper upgrades. No diamonds for gold exchange or anything too nasty that noone else does. I started playing mid - July. Had a few weeks of free days then i started working in a job that i could not enroll during work. That lasted for several months ( up until around 2 months ago when i found a way to bypass my company's proxy server and enroll at work :P ). The AP rule has nothing to do with me , you can check my battles ever since level 5 i was using a lot of arts for hunts/MG quests far more than AP rule requirements now. At some point because wizard is really weak at ambushing i spent gold and made DE castle. Ambushed all the way to level 4. Sold total 2 x TGI total gain 800k gold from them. I got atm enough money to make the mini arts i want for all creatures as soon as i hit faction level 8 ( 3 luck / 8-9 att / 8-9 defense ). Didnt do anything special like ganking defender shields or some other underground activity to gain gold. No leasing ,nothing.
You will say i had a good advantage using diamonds. The advantage i got CAN be gained very easily given free time to enroll once per hour often. Believe it or not, do some calculations if you want , i could have bought the TGI and the 2 upgrades with in game money ( well not lorekeepers yet but thats irrelevant ) and it would cost say 600k gold total to do that. That equals around 800 more hours of enrolling compared to what i got now. Considering i got like 8 months playing that's 100 more enrolling per month or 3.33 times more enrolling per day....
Mini artifacts are amazing. With full mini artifacts and equal gear/enchants it is more or less possible to beat every other faction except maybe barbarians ( not tested there are some chances in theory ) and most of those factions are nothing more than a free frag in a duel. Group combat is where wizards are the best at higher level massive fireballs / dominion of fire dominate the board in a way other factions can only do under advantageous circumstances. Many people underestimate genies because they suck at start :P Beware! my genies bite!
Also a comment on 25 about demons :) After level 10 demons is one of the strongest factions overall. Cerberi and Hell Horses with high faction level are far more devastating than you can imagine. Player percentage refers to all levels. Elves are amazing at low level that's why most ppl play them. It has nothing to do with overall power during game. | I appreaciate the time you put in this correcting me, and I do agree with you on most points. But let me rephrase my points.
-Wizards want to be as strong as others? Then all of you are telling me to enroll more or wear less arts and such(which I do every hour) so I can afford minis. That takes time and patience, and so in the mean time, you have to battle less to achieve this.
Conclusion: This greatly reduces the chance for any wizard to be in the top players.
-Some of you mentioned wizards are unbeatable with full minis, so that means if one have a lot of patience and spend his time to make the ultimate wizard, then its unfair to other factions. They will say:"I have the patience, but why cant our faction do that to become the best?".
Conclusion: Other factions will complain.
-Wizards don't need full minis to win. Really? Have you been a wizard yourself? Have you experienced all these levels? If you have not, just watch some high level combats.
Conclusion: Full minis are needed to be as strong as other factions(excluding special factions barb and necro). And that means more gold, and return to point one. | Note that wearing mini-artifacts is a luxury.
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=38 | #27
You are contradicting yourself.
-Some of you mentioned wizards are unbeatable with full minis, so that means if one have a lot of patience and spend his time to make the ultimate wizard, then its unfair to other factions. They will say:"I have the patience, but why cant our faction do that to become the best?".
So wizard with full mini-arts are powerful?
Conclusion: Full minis are needed to be as strong as other factions(excluding special factions barb and necro). And that means more gold, and return to point one.
So wizard with full mini-arts are just average? | hiddenshadow,
I played lvl 1-7 without the AP rule. The only times I used artifacts was when I wanted to try for a record in hunting. If not I would have just passed the hunt and waited for an easier one to come up. The point is, wizards can do hunts and merc quests without using artifacts. You do not need to buy magic artifacts, just buy the cheap ones like anyone else. (I would try to get one that ups defense since its better for wizards.) In fact then you can use that extra money you are saving for mini arts.
Another thing, mini arts aren't needed in hunting and merc quests. As a wizard what determines whether we win or not is how much damage we can do with our spells and whether we can last long enough to use all our mana to kill our enemies.
Mini arts are needed for pvp, and for me I don't plan on pvping much until I get faction lvl 7 and save up enough money for a full set of triple minis for my guys. Til then I'll just be hunting and doing merc quests (well, after I get tg lvl 2).
So what if other people pvp more and get more xp. The people that pvp alot tend to neglect the other guilds and become weaker overall for their level. | for hiddenshadow:
I hate to be a huge downer -- because this is a valid topic of debate -- but your points are flimsy and inconsistent. For example:
I was saying without those costy miniarts, arts and such, having a normal castle like anyone else', there would be no match.
Here you are saying that not having miniarts would be a sure loss for a Wizard. I hope you mean PvP because in all PvM instances, there is absolutely no need for a Wiz to have mini-arts to come out on top of the other factions. And even in PvP, I have no idea how I would handle a Wizard in a duel; and Wizards are always deadly in Group. I don't even bother to see whether or not they have mini-arts. If you feel like you are at a disadvantage in PvP, perhaps you need to rethink your strategy, or maybe even your faction.
Even with mini-arts, we pose no special advantage overall, so why do we play a more costier faction than anyone else if all factions' strength are equal in general, or they are supposed to be equal.
Huh? This is the sentence immediately after the first quote. So now you're saying mini-arts are nothing special other than being a gold-sink? Mini-arts in no way make a Wizard equal to the other factions. They are a Luxury to allow Wizardly units to experience the wonder of regular artifacts while the Lord goes out and buys him or herself Magic-based shop arts. Of course, this is the most expensive way to go; but certainly the deadliest to any faction... even Barbarian's Magic resist wouldn't stand a chance. | Numerous tests have been made, both here and on .ru. Magic DE does not work good later on, it's only a period from level 1-7.
Its no matter will it be good or not. If u want to play with magic, so be it. Elemental call caused a lot more dmg than the wizard could do. Wiz playing might at .ru is good too, why not? Its about u, what do u prefer? | | To play with wizard you have to put briliants in youre account.That is good for administration.Administration have to "feed" from something anyway. | for MinimalTech:
Er... clarify what you mean... I don't think it really made much sense, or did I miss something? | He meant diamonds.
Then there comes the why does playing wizard cost you diamonds not others.
I'd rather spend my diamonds in a more logical way, instead of wasting them and still not be stronger.... | I'm still horrifically confused. You don't need diamonds at all to play Wizard; not anymore than any other faction at least (i.e. early upgrades)...
And how can you possibly think that a Wizard with full mini-arts still doesn't stand a chance?
Not only do you have very little experience with mini-arts, but if you're doing so poorly as a Wizard then I would have to chalk it up to your strategy. Wizard is and always will be one of the strongest factions; even _without_ mini-arts.
If you are having such a hard time efficiently playing Wizard, change your faction now before you spend all your gold on mini-arts you don't even like. | 30
rofl, magic DE with magic pierce is the only work could kill those with resist or immune spell. i bet it is the only faction could use spell kick your butt hard
ofc, as magic DE, you should know elemental call, sorcery talent are always important. so, you can end up with non-bad troops + awesome spell dmg = combination of might and magic.
unlike DE, wiz spell will be able to resist by any existed talent, abilities or enhanced armor. their spell wont kick you as hard as DE; but with the holy magic guild + mini art, they can be good fighter too. | Well, if you, hiddenshadow don't complain about weakness of wizard but want to balance building cost then my suggestion is to make wizard more weaker than present day after reduce its cost.
Believe me, this game is well balance but not in every level or every aspect. The point is if you choose any faction you must find and use that strong point.
Imagine if all faction are the same in everything then the game will very boring. | for hiddenshadow:
Funny topic at all. If someone complains about the difficulties of being a wizard, probably never heard anything about DnD (Dungeons and Dragons). By default being a wizard is (has been, and will be) very expensive by all means. That's what you trade for power. You even lose your health for power as well.
I see many similarities here as well, with only one exception. Normally wizards are only a small fraction of the total population, but here it is almost equal to other factions. Even this exception shows that this game is more wizard-friendly than it should be.
You are only lvl5 and you complain too much about unbalance.
I've played many PvP's and group battles until lvl6, and I never fealt unbalanced there. Like any apprentice wizard, with the lack of enough knowledge and power, you have to balance it with might. So did I and really enjoyed it. When you hit lvl5, you have to start to differ from other factions, and which is quite normal. Have you ever seen a wizard character (DnD or in novels etc), wasting his precious time on *childish quarrels* ? Yes, as a wizard, you have to be a loner and focus on increasing your knowledge in arcana and creatures, while working in library (in game terms : Merchant Quests, Hunting and Working in facilities respectively), and rarely opposing other human beings (PvP).
But you will benefit very much of this trade. You will be making more quest than any other faction and get more elements and MG Levels, and you will get +1 skill bonus at lvl2, much more before than the other factions. Hunting will cost you less than other factions as well, since your magical powers simply beat the monsters, so with the same amount of money on artifacts, you can make more hunting quests as well (probably leveling faster in HG as well and getting +1 atk bonus/level earlier than others), since you can oppose stronger monsters with less AP, not to mention that every faction level increase make you stronger than any other faction can be, even if your combat level remains same (PvM only). So you immediately start to benefit of your *powers*. People says that earning TG levels are difficult for wizards and they are right. It is also a balanced trade-off. As a library-worm, you can't expect much against seasoned-caravans, and if you insist on that, you have to pay by wasting your precious *time*. Wizard-brigands/Wizard-thieves are even more scarce than wizards ;) or you find an excellent way to extend your life span like long-living creatures like elves.
When you get powerful enough, then you should start to focus on *summoned creatures* (high level tier creatures), othewise you'll be at risk of being drown in a quality vs quantity battle.
Ta ta! you are Wiz7 and start to enhance your *summoned* creatures by tripple mini-arts. Building a good army is always expensive.
Whenever you feel bad about being alone, you can always take a break and join to *other* people (thanks to multi-classing). But well, you've tasted power once. You know where you belong and you'll return back ;)
So TL/DR, being a wizard is *special* and if you aren't *special* don't waste your time by pretending a wizard (and complaining of course :P) | Hexagram, good words. Aploud to you.
Have fun, players, no need in complains. |
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